I like COVID 19

[Gregs24]

You're response is based on a false premise. I take no offense whatsoever. You may recall that I defended your right to criticize based on the fact the our (American) statements effect the world.

Nevertheless, you seem obsessed with criticizing the U.S. rather than critiquing the UK response and providing more insight than a falsely founded garden speech.

What is the situation in the UK right now? What of it is imperfect? What can others learn from it? Mind sharing?

The 'falsely founded' garden video as you describe it, was what actually happened in the UK. Whether it turns out to be correct or not is too early to tell. Whether what the UK has done since is correct is equally too early to tell. What the US is doing is too early to tell, but I'm quite sure about is that arguments between NYC and Rhode island officials is doing nothing of value for anybody.

You have to remember that countries will have different responses based on availability of healthcare and critical bed capacity per unit of population, so there is no right answer that fits all. However I can say with certainty that political arguments are never a solution to disease control.

So my right to ask a question and express an opinion is in no way impacted by what is happening in the UK or elsewhere. My opinion is not less valid, because you don't think the UK has done a good job and I happen to live in the UK

Therefore back to my original question - is the US response as disjointed as it seems ? I don't live there and would like to know.

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[Caballus]

The 'falsely founded' garden video as you describe it, was what actually happened in the UK. Whether it turns out to be correct or not is too early to tell. Whether what the UK has done since is correct is equally too early to tell. What the US is doing is too early to tell, but I'm quite sure about is that arguments between NYC and Rhode island officials is doing nothing of value for anybody.

You have to remember that countries will have different responses based on availability of healthcare and critical bed capacity per unit of population, so there is no right answer that fits all. However I can say with certainty that political arguments are never a solution to disease control.

So my right to ask a question and express an opinion is in no way impacted by what is happening in the UK or elsewhere. My opinion is not less valid, because you don't think the UK has done a good job and I happen to live in the UK

Therefore back to my original question - is the US response as disjointed as it seems ? I don't live there and would like to know.

The falsely founded garden video espoused a policy that you reversed, so time will not tell anything. Let me help you

1. You were saying that it is too early to tell and there was not enough data even as the rest of Europe was locking down
2. Your head of government, who originally advocated for the ill-advised policy is stricken with COVID-19
3. Your queen's husband is stricken with COVID-19
4. Large numbers of Poles (a significant segment of the British population) are returning to Poland because of their lack of faith in your health care system
5. Your healthcare system is overwhelmed
6. Below is an email from a colleague:

"I first started showing coronavirus symptoms on Saturday 14 Mar after visiting my father in hospital in UK. I spent the last two weeks in isolation with my mother who was also suffering the same and exactly at the same time. I was not tested for the virus due to the lack of available testing in UK, so I cannot confirm if I was infected, other than to say, it was unlike any virus or flu I have had before."

As for your question, no, it is not disjointed, it is decentralized. We are a federal republic intentionally, because that was the best way to protect the country from the tyrannical British government. The foundation is solid, and I am sure we would welcome you to become the 51st state as soon as you get your house in order .

So, back to my original point, rather than worrying about whether or not the U.S. response is disjointed, how about sharing lessons from the UK response.

 

[Hack]

Not wishing to become a target for criticism - but is the US response really as disjointed as it seems ?

I accept that the US states are as big as some European countries which have all done their own thing, but I would have thought the advantage of those states being part of a single country and administration would be that the approach to disease control would be more coordinated. Not for example NYC and Rhode Island fighting with each other over a potential lockdown. It is all just wasting time you don't have.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52080119

There are a lot of different opinions on what to do. It's tough because there are no easy answers. The independence of the states probably leads to MORE siloing and disjointedness (if that's a word). And the cynic in me realizes that there are huge businesses that benefit from exaggerating turmoil rather than trying to help find solutions.

 

[Gregs24]

The falsely founded garden video espoused a policy that you reversed, so time will not tell anything. Let me help you

1. You were saying that it is too early to tell and there was not enough data even as the rest of Europe was locking down
2. Your head of government, who originally advocated for the ill-advised policy is stricken with COVID-19
3. Your queen's husband is stricken with COVID-19
4. Large numbers of Poles (a significant segment of the British population) are returning to Poland because of their lack of faith in your health care system
5. Your healthcare system is overwhelmed
6. Below is an email from a colleague:

"I first started showing coronavirus symptoms on Saturday 14 Mar after visiting my father in hospital in UK. I spent the last two weeks in isolation with my mother who was also suffering the same and exactly at the same time. I was not tested for the virus due to the lack of available testing in UK, so I cannot confirm if I was infected, other than to say, it was unlike any virus or flu I have had before."

As for your question, no, it is not disjointed, it is decentralized. We are a federal republic intentionally, because that was the best way to protect the country from the tyrannical British government. The foundation is solid, and I am sure we would welcome you to become the 51st state as soon as you get your house in order .

So, back to my original point, rather than worrying about whether or not the U.S. response is disjointed, how about sharing lessons from the UK response.

1.We have actually locked down a few days earlier in the disease spread compared to Italy and Spain so make of that what you will
2.Of no relevance to anything - why should the PM be excused from this disease ?
3.Prince Phillip (and Charles who actually has it and isn't stricken) have even less to do with it than BJ
4.You are going to need to come up with some evidence for a statement like that concerning 1% of the UK population
5.Currently not the case - there is still capacity available even in London
6. Not sure what the point is ?

What a silly comment about the 'tyrannical British government'. What on earth does that add to the discussion other than a cheap shot about ancient history? It certainly is irrelevant to a pandemic 300 years later. If you still justify your system on something you feel you needed 300 years ago rather than on what is best now how is that something to boast about ?

 

[Gregs24]

There are a lot of different opinions on what to do. It's tough because there are no easy answers. The independence of the states probably leads to MORE siloing and disjointedness (if that's a word). And the cynic in me realizes that there are huge businesses that benefit from exaggerating turmoil rather than trying to help find solutions.

Thank you for a simple answer to a simple question !

 

[Caballus]

1.We have actually locked down a few days earlier in the disease spread compared to Italy and Spain so make of that what you will
2.Of no relevance to anything - why should the PM be excused from this disease ?
3.Prince Phillip (and Charles) have even less to do with it than BJ
4.You are going to need to come up with some evidence for a statement like that
5.Currently not the case - there is still capacity available even in London
6. Not sure what the point is ?

What a silly comment about the 'tyrannical British government'. What on earth does that add to the discussion other than a cheap shot about ancient history? It certainly is irrelevant to a pandemic 300 years later. If you still justify your system on something you feel you needed 300 years ago rather than on what is best now how is that something to boast about ?

You continue to misrepresent facts:
1. While the national lock down occurred at about the same time, Italy's lock down was incremental. Northern Italy was locked down weeks before the UK acknowledged the problem. That fact matters when comparing, especially when seeking to analyze trends.
2. & 3. A more effective response may have prevented this, no?
4. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/mar/29/poles-criticize-britain-s-response-2020/
5. Substantiated by #6, though that experience began after Europe shut down and while the UK was still using the garden variety approach

Ancient history would be Stonehenge. The point is that what appears disjointed to a former colonizer is actually historically-rooted in the nation's federal structure. So, as you do your analysis, historical facts matter--whether the weeks preceding the UK's COVID awakening or the centuries that preceded the US federal system. Answers are found within the facts--whole truth.

 

[Gregs24]

You continue to misrepresent facts:
1. While the national lock down occurred at about the same time, Italy's lock down was incremental. Northern Italy was locked down weeks before the UK acknowledged the problem. That fact matters when comparing, especially when seeking to analyze trends.
2. & 3. A more effective response may have prevented this, no?
4. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/mar/29/poles-criticize-britain-s-response-2020/
5. Substantiated by #6, though that experience began after Europe shut down and while the UK was still using the garden variety approach

Ancient history would be Stonehenge. The point is that what appears disjointed to a former colonizer is actually historically-rooted in the nation's federal structure. So, as you do your analysis, historical facts matter--whether the weeks preceding the UK's COVID awakening or the centuries that preceded the US federal system. Answers are found within the facts--whole truth.

1. At no point has the UK failed to acknowledge the problem
2. Who knows - plenty of other 'statesmen' and women have contracted the disease because of their international lifestyle.
4. One Pole gives an opinion and 'thousands are leaving' (out of 800,000) but no mention of the people returning to the UK because they value our health service. That Pole being an IT expert.
5. At no point has the UK been overwhelmed - yet. That is exactly what our actions are trying to avoid.

It is either disjointed or not (which you still haven't answered yourself) - historical and political claptrap from 300 years ago is irrelevant.

 

[Caballus]

1. At no point has the UK failed to acknowledge the problem
2. Who knows - plenty of other 'statesmen' and women have contracted the disease because of their international lifestyle.
4. One Pole gives an opinion and 'thousands are leaving' (out of 800,000) but no mention of the people returning to the UK because they value our health service. That Pole being an IT expert.
5. At no point has the UK been overwhelmed - yet. That is exactly what our actions are trying to avoid.

It is either disjointed or not (which you still haven't answered yourself) - historical and political claptrap from 300 years ago is irrelevant.

No, it is not disjointed, it is decentralized. There's your answer.

Decentralization is a result of relevant history, an understanding of which would have provided the answer before having to ask.


Allow me to rephrase--UK failed to respond expeditiously, in spite of the data. Yet, you continue to cite the last week of March--weeks after Europe was locked down, and no mention of the fact that it was a month after Italy began decisive regional responses.

So, when you say your response was to prevent the system from being overwhelmed, you are referring to the response you abandoned and determined was wrongheaded; that response?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/23/britain-covid-19-head-start-squandered

In the UK we have had nine weeks to listen, learn and prepare. We have had nine weeks to run outbreak simulations, set up supply chains to ensure sufficient personal protective equipment (PPE) and ventilators, and bring about the availability of rapid, cheap tests. We have had nine weeks to establish algorithms to support contact tracing, and start mass awareness campaigns not only about hand-washing, but about the risks that the virus would pose to social and economic activity if not taken seriously by all. Countries such as Senegal were doing this in January.

The UK’s head start in managing the outbreak continued as our confirmed case count remained lower than our neighbours’. However, on 12 March, Boris Johnson announced that all minor testing and contact tracing would stop and passive self-isolation would be introduced for those with symptoms, all part of a herd immunity strategy supposedly endorsed by the “best science”. After a backlash from scientists, the government clarified that it was not explicitly pursuing herd immunity, but would be taking measures at the “right time guided by the evidence”, all according to a plan which it did not share with the public...

Are there British failures that provide lessons for others or was everything done correctly based on available information?

 

[Gregs24]

No, it is not disjointed, it is decentralized. There's your answer.

Decentralization is a result of relevant history, an understanding of which would have provided the answer before having to ask.


Allow me to rephrase--UK failed to respond expeditiously, in spite of the data. Yet, you continue to cite the last week of March--weeks after Europe was locked down, and no mention of the fact that it was a month after Italy began decisive regional responses.

So, when you say your response was to prevent the system from being overwhelmed, you are referring to the response you abandoned and determined was wrongheaded; that response?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/23/britain-covid-19-head-start-squandered

In the UK we have had nine weeks to listen, learn and prepare. We have had nine weeks to run outbreak simulations, set up supply chains to ensure sufficient personal protective equipment (PPE) and ventilators, and bring about the availability of rapid, cheap tests. We have had nine weeks to establish algorithms to support contact tracing, and start mass awareness campaigns not only about hand-washing, but about the risks that the virus would pose to social and economic activity if not taken seriously by all. Countries such as Senegal were doing this in January.

The UK’s head start in managing the outbreak continued as our confirmed case count remained lower than our neighbours’. However, on 12 March, Boris Johnson announced that all minor testing and contact tracing would stop and passive self-isolation would be introduced for those with symptoms, all part of a herd immunity strategy supposedly endorsed by the “best science”. After a backlash from scientists, the government clarified that it was not explicitly pursuing herd immunity, but would be taking measures at the “right time guided by the evidence”, all according to a plan which it did not share with the public...

Are there British failures that provide lessons for others or was everything done correctly based on available information?

At last - so you are saying it is not disjointed. Thank you for your answer - it took some getting too !

I wouldn't have needed to ask if it was decentralised (which I didn't), as I am well aware of how things are setup in the US - maybe that decentralisation is causing the disjointed approach - Oh no, please don't answer that, we don't have the server capacity to cope

The rest is the same old irrelevant guff you keep peddling and not the answer to the question I asked - If I had asked for your opinion on what the UK had done, I would have made it clear in the question.

Oh you do know the Guardian is a left wing paper that hates the current Tory Government don't you ?

 

[Caballus]

At last - so you are saying it is not disjointed. Thank you for your answer - it took some getting too !

I wouldn't have needed to ask if it was decentralised (which I didn't), as I am well aware of how things are setup in the US - maybe that decentralisation is causing the disjointed approach - Oh no, please don't answer that, we don't have the server capacity to cope

The rest is the same old irrelevant guff you keep peddling and not the answer to the question I asked - If I had asked for your opinion on what the UK had done, I would have made it clear in the question.

You're wrong again. Look back at post 62:

"As for your question, no, it is not disjointed, it is decentralized. We are a federal republic intentionally, because that was the best way to protect the country from the tyrannical British government. The foundation is solid, and I am sure we would welcome you to become the 51st state as soon as you get your house in order ."

You are in complete denial of UK failures as you focus on cloaking your criticism of the US experience. That's the bottom line. Plenty of space for gardening videos though I guess.

Carry on and keep denying...

 

[Caballus]

Oh you do know the Guardian is a left wing paper that hates the current Tory Government don't you ?

Which of their facts are incorrect?

 

[Gregs24]

You're wrong again. Look back at post 62:

"As for your question, no, it is not disjointed, it is decentralized. We are a federal republic intentionally, because that was the best way to protect the country from the tyrannical British government. The foundation is solid, and I am sure we would welcome you to become the 51st state as soon as you get your house in order ."

You are in complete denial of UK failures as you focus on cloaking your criticism of the US experience. That's the bottom line. Plenty of space for gardening videos though I guess.

Carry on and keep denying...

You really are a stuck record.

If I asked you what the weather was like today in the US you would complain i was criticising the US and denying UK failures plus mention gardening again.

Do you have a secret gardening fetish ?

 

[Caballus]

You really are a stuck record.

If I asked you what the weather was like today in the US you would complain i was criticising the US and denying UK failures plus mention gardening again.

Do you have a secret gardening fetish ?

Yes, stuck because despite your insistence on answers you have provided no insights whatsoever:


What is the situation in the UK right now with reference to COVID? What of the response imperfect? What can others learn from it? What facts did the article misstate? Mind sharing?

 

[Docscurlock]

All true.
What I’m seeing here in Australia is criticism of the government in two directions. Either they haven’t done enough, or, they’re going too far.
Without the benefit of time for critical analysis, committees, studies and the rest of the usual suspects, we see a government doing their best to deal with an unforeseen issue based on the advice they’re receiving from medical professionals.
I’m not sure how a government can form a better response at this point in time.

We in the States are seeing this also but most of the "expert" opinions are coming form the liberal media or genius epidemiologists from the UK. For those of you not from the US, please realize that most of your news is coming from CNN, they are a very much ignored media source in the US. They are literally an arm of the Democratic Party and aren't considered reliable for news in the US. You can look at their precipitous fall in ratings as proof of this. Foxnews has the highest ratings and most viewers followed by MSNBC and CNN which together are at a level of about 3/4 of Fox.

 

[Docscurlock]

The 'falsely founded' garden video as you describe it, was what actually happened in the UK. Whether it turns out to be correct or not is too early to tell. Whether what the UK has done since is correct is equally too early to tell. What the US is doing is too early to tell, but I'm quite sure about is that arguments between NYC and Rhode island officials is doing nothing of value for anybody.

You have to remember that countries will have different responses based on availability of healthcare and critical bed capacity per unit of population, so there is no right answer that fits all. However I can say with certainty that political arguments are never a solution to disease control.

So my right to ask a question and express an opinion is in no way impacted by what is happening in the UK or elsewhere. My opinion is not less valid, because you don't think the UK has done a good job and I happen to live in the UK

Therefore back to my original question - is the US response as disjointed as it seems ? I don't live there and would like to know.

The US response is not disjointed at all, we are having higher episodes of the virus in congested urban areas and the rural areas are quite unaffected. Our government mostly has put in good recommendations for people to remain secluded from each other. The only rare commodity around here is toilet paper for some weird reason. In the most affected areas our government is shipping emergency supplies as fast as they can. New York and LA got troop hospital ships already, our auto manufacturers are making respirators, our factories are making N95 masks and gowns. Ford Motor company is already producing ventilators, GM needed a little persuasion. This virus is hitting hard but we are going to make out just fine and our country is going to fight like the devil for every life.

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