I like COVID 19

[watisthis]

I said there are plenty OTHER examples OUT THERE, meaning beyond this article. On the blind attack again I see.

I actually laughed out loud.

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[Gregs24]

I mean you previously supported the now-changed UK policy of allowing youth to be exposed based on the notion that it would increase immunity and flatten the curve. Now you seem to support a policy designed to limit exposure for youth. Am I misinterpreting your current position?

Oh I see what you mean

Yes we have progressed here as have most European countries. Without total social distancing it just doesn't work as compliance is the main issue. Our Government dropped the idea of herd immunity a couple of weeks ago as new data suggested it wasn't going to work. I think the way restrictions are introduced is important as if you try too much initially compliance and resistance is a problem If you introduce it steadily gradually racking up restrictions then the gradual restriction to freedom becomes incremental and acceptable.

Total lockdown will be the ultimate position as it is simply impossible to stop the virus once established in the local population as it is now. If you halve the number of social interactions you reduce the spread massively. Your current 15 days of restrictions will not be enough, but will start to get the population involved in the process which will help when restrictions get more severe. These restrictions will be in place in one form or another for months or even a year. US is no different to any other population so you need to take it VERY seriously.

 

[Caballus]

Oh I see what you mean

Yes we have progressed here as have most European countries. Without total social distancing it just doesn't work as compliance is the main issue. Our Government dropped the idea of herd immunity a couple of weeks ago as new data suggested it wasn't going to work. I think the way restrictions are introduced is important as if you try too much initially compliance and resistance is a problem If you introduce it steadily gradually racking up restrictions then the gradual restriction to freedom becomes incremental and acceptable.

Total lockdown will be the ultimate position as it is simply impossible to stop the virus once established in the local population as it is now. If you halve the number of social interactions you reduce the spread massively. Your current 15 days of restrictions will not be enough, but will start to get the population involved in the process which will help when restrictions get more severe. These restrictions will be in place in one form or another for months or even a year. US is no different to any other population so you need to take it VERY seriously.

Your government dropped the idea? I am commenting on your position, not that of your government. You seemed to fully support the previous position, per your gardener video and your vehement arguments.

My current 15 days? Do you realize where I am? I am in a country that instituted far more stringent testing and protective procedures far earlier than the UK did. I watched closely as your drama unfolded.

So, again, my comment was on your change of position--I agree with the change, by the way.

 

[Gregs24]

Your government dropped the idea? I am commenting on your position, not that of your government. You seemed to fully support the previous position, per your gardener video and your vehement arguments.

My current 15 days? Do you realize where I am? I am in a country that instituted far more stringent testing and protective procedures far earlier than the UK did. I watched closely as your drama unfolded.

So, again, my comment was on your change of position--I agree with the change, by the way.

Sorry didn't clock where you were.

Opinions change based on the evidence available - if they don't then you are doomed. I did support the previous argument, but equally accept the changed position based on the changing evidence.

 

[Caballus]

Sorry didn't clock where you were.

Opinions change based on the evidence available - if they don't then you are doomed. I did support the previous argument, but equally accept the changed position based on the changing evidence.

Glad you changed, though the evidence was pretty clear to many from the beginning. Either way, welcome aboard.

 

[Shadow277]

https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/569020372.html

Plenty other examples out there...

I don't have a respiratory disease

 

[Shadow277]

Please guys - It is NOT the flu.

Whilst most young people do not die there are a few cases. My 23 year old son has significant symptoms and has been pretty ill so it isn't insignificant even in the young. It is devastating in the old with some truly hideous death rates now where the health service is overwhelmed. You have to be very careful interpreting death rates as if case numbers are low enough and the health service can cope many more survive, when it gets out of control it soars. Over 65 in Italy are now not given the option of a ventilator so pretty much guaranteed to die if serious.

The US is very close to a catastrophe now unless drastic action is taken countrywide and for some time. There are plenty of countries with lots of information available now on how the outbreak takes shape - please use it to your advantage before it is too late.

You are technically correct. The worst kind of correct. It is a flu strain.

 

[Gregs24]

You are technically correct. The worst kind of correct. It is a flu strain.

You know what I mean - it isn't what the general public refer to as flu

 

[Gregs24]

Glad you changed, though the evidence was pretty clear to many from the beginning. Either way, welcome aboard.

Exactly that - we all need to learn from others mistakes which we may have not done.

My son (who is currently recovering from COVID-19) works for Amazon here in the UK and in his downtime has been doing some analysis of data from around the world. Italy seems to be turning a corner statistically, Spain is looking bad, France isn't great, Germany looking better, but is his words the US id f**ked. Now I realise this is one persons mathematical analysis but seriously guys over the pond - take this seriously please.

 

[Caballus]

Exactly that - we all need to learn from others mistakes which we may have not done.

My son (who is currently recovering from COVID-19) works for Amazon here in the UK and in his downtime has been doing some analysis of data from around the world. Italy seems to be turning a corner statistically, Spain is looking bad, France isn't great, Germany looking better, but is his words the US id f**ked. Now I realise this is one persons mathematical analysis but seriously guys over the pond - take this seriously please.

Ok, bottom line is you (personally) were very self-righteous before and insulting those with other positions. You (personally) argued strongly that it was stupid to try to slow the spread by isolating, as that would only delay the impact on healthcare to a time when it was less capable of handing the load. The young, according to you (personally), should be allowed to be exposed in order to build an immunity that no one to this point has confirmed will even exist.

Now, your (very own) son is affected and you have seen the light. Yet, now you (personally) continue to criticize others (i.e., the U.S.). I am in the heart of Europe and lead a multinational team that regularly travels much of the world. I have a good feel for the conditions of each European country for sure, to include yours where one colleague is currently stranded. Yours, by the way, was the slowest in the West to respond, despite the obvious facts before us all.

Your self-righteous flip flopping is epic.

Best to your son.

 

[Bikeman315]

Wow, this is a fun thread. First off, Greg, prayers and good thoughts to your son. People first, everything else second.

So we start out with one of the dumbest thread titles ever on this forum. This is followed up with one of the most asinine posts ever written. It goes five whole posts before we start going after one another. Two valued members from across the pond show us that there are major disagreements between those in Europe and the UK as well as what we are seeing in the US.

I’m sitting here now listening to the President talk about a “beautiful timeline”. You folks overseas have no idea how good you have it. G-d help us all.

 

[Gregs24]

Ok, bottom line is you (personally) were very self-righteous before and insulting those with other positions. You (personally) argued strongly that it was stupid to try to slow the spread by isolating, as that would only delay the impact on healthcare to a time when it was less capable of handing the load. The young, according to you (personally), should be allowed to be exposed in order to build an immunity that no one to this point has confirmed will even exist.

Now, your (very own) son is affected and you have seen the light. Yet, now you (personally) continue to criticize others (i.e., the U.S.). I am in the heart of Europe and lead a multinational team that regularly travels much of the world. I have a good feel for the conditions of each European country for sure, to include yours where one colleague is currently stranded. Yours, by the way, was the slowest in the West to respond, despite the obvious facts before us all.

Your self-righteous flip flopping is epic.

Best to your son.

Nothing I said was self righteous or insulting and at no point did I say self isolating was stupid. Just because you misunderstood something I wrote doesn't make you right - it was you that kept jumping on this exposing the young concept that was never a UK policy. You completely failed to understand that explaining the young suffer less severe symptoms in general is not the same thing. If you had any medical knowledge you would understand that immunity is present post recovery for a period of time that at this point is not defined - that is why we recover because our immune system does it's job. I have not 'seen the light' and anybody with a modicum of scientific knowledge would ever be so arrogant to assume that views can never change based on data. There were valid reasons for the UK approach (that at no point said self isolating was unimportant or that it would not be required) that as a result of updated data was itself modified. I understood the approach the UK Government was taking at the time and also why it has changed.

Until antibody tests are available the immunity and extent of transmission in the general population is as yet unknown but will be vital in determining measures taken in the future which will likely change again. It is hoped that this will be available in the UK in about 2 or 3 weeks but only on a limited scale initially. The PCR test is of limited use in this as it only detects virus whilst infected.

I am indeed criticising the US as it really needs to act faster, but it isn't the only country in this position and pretty much every country could be criticised for some of the things it's administration and population have done.I am also able to accept my opinions and understanding change with time based on the information available - that is how scientific understanding works. I can assure you that there are no 'obvious' facts in a pandemic.

I concede that you are 'obviously' far more knowledgeable than me if that makes you feel better, but sadly Caballus 'winning' an argument isn't going to save any lives.

 

[Gregs24]

Wow, this is a fun thread. First off, Greg, prayers and good thoughts to your son. People first, everything else second.

So we start out with one of the dumbest thread titles ever on this forum. This is followed up with one of the most asinine posts ever written. It goes five whole posts before we start going after one another. Two valued members from across the pond show us that there are major disagreements between those in Europe and the UK as well as what we are seeing in the US.

I’m sitting here now listening to the President talk about a “beautiful timeline”. You folks overseas have no idea how good you have it. G-d help us all.

It was quite an impressive OP and my response may have been a little flippant but, probably of a similar calibre to the OP (who seems to have kept his head down since then!)

I really do fear for the US, I'm not being critical of the US per se (can't say the same for DT) or trying to win any arguments / score points because that is just trivial at this point in time. There is NO DOUBT that isolation is the only way to slow the progression of the virus based on current data when it is established in a population. How this is used, when it is used and how often it will be used are open to debate and epidemiological data and modelling as well as regional variations.

Thanks for your kind words - my son is currently coughing his way back to health !

 

[Caballus]

Nothing I said was self righteous or insulting and at no point did I say self isolating was stupid. Just because you misunderstood something I wrote doesn't make you right - it was you that kept jumping on this exposing the young concept that was never a UK policy. You completely failed to understand that explaining the young suffer less severe symptoms in general is not the same thing. If you had any medical knowledge you would understand that immunity is present post recovery for a period of time that at this point is not defined - that is why we recover because our immune system does it's job. I have not 'seen the light' and anybody with a modicum of scientific knowledge would ever be so arrogant to assume that views can never change based on data. There were valid reasons for the UK approach (that at no point said self isolating was unimportant or that it would not be required) that as a result of updated data was itself modified. I understood the approach the UK Government was taking at the time and also why it has changed.

Until antibody tests are available the immunity and extent of transmission in the general population is as yet unknown but will be vital in determining measures taken in the future which will likely change again. It is hoped that this will be available in the UK in about 2 or 3 weeks but only on a limited scale initially. The PCR test is of limited use in this as it only detects virus whilst infected.

I am indeed criticising the US as it really needs to act faster, but it isn't the only country in this position and pretty much every country could be criticised for some of the things it's administration and population have done.I am also able to accept my opinions and understanding change with time based on the information available - that is how scientific understanding works. I can assure you that there are no 'obvious' facts in a pandemic.

I concede that you are 'obviously' far more knowledgeable than me if that makes you feel better, but sadly Caballus 'winning' an argument isn't going to save any lives.

You are completely missing the point. It is MANAGING exposure to MANAGE the case load and hence load on the medical services. If you get that wrong you will be overwhelmed and the death rate will RISE because you can't cope. It will spread.

 

[Gregs24]

I don't see what you have posted is at odds there. Of course we need to manage the case load.

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