False knock? Looking for help.

[beetle6986]

I will get better data and proceed with better testing and report back to anyone following along.

Let us know the results. I would be surprised if you find out that this is real detonation with running only 6.5 LBs of boost and the timing I see in your logs. I'm running 10 LBs and my car adds timing up to a total of 20 degrees with just 3-4 ounces of boostane.

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[WildHorse]

I agree with that. Another thing, is how do people know they are getting 91 or 93 octane at the pump when most cars will operate as normal to the owners even if it was 89 that they were actually getting.....

My data logs told me that :
~ 3 Shell stations here there 91 V-power E0 had timing being removed (+1 to +3 KR )
~ Husky 91 E10 was added (-1 KR)
~ Domo 91+ E0 was using all the timing sauce (-3 KR)

 

[Torinate]

Exactly. I would be trying a different station for sure.

I watch my knockr as well. At one specific Mobil 93 station I have gone to, my cars pulls timing like crazy. If I go with my trusted favourite PetroCan stations I’m getting all the timing! So, I’m pretty sure the 93 at this one station is certainly not 93. I’ve used other Mobil stations with success as well though. I would hazard a guess that that station’s 92 isn’t quite there. Especially if you are truly seeing only 6.5 pounds of boost. I know there’s been a little discrepancy between said boost actual boost.

 

[cbrtrx]

Its shit imo because ethanol companies put out up to 200% ethanol content, but they break it down to %70 & charge you for 85 for greedyness only. Its still better than 91 premium, but when they claim to have e85 yet test to %70 all year long then why call it 85 & not 70?

How is it 200 percent ethanol?

 

[markmurfie]

When running an aggressive tune, I always watch air load and knock, when testing a new tank of fuels knock resistance. I do this 10 miles after fill up, then again after the first 1/4 tank.
Part throttle holding around 2000 RPMs in 4th(6r80) or 7th(10R80). I only apply enough throttle to get airload to between .45-.65 and try to hold it steady. If the knock advance gets to 8-10* its good for WOT. If it only gets to 4 or less, I just drive easy until that tank clears out. Its really the only way to see if you really are getting that 91/93 as advertised.

Others tunes may vary with how much they can add at that RPM and load, but you can pretty quickly figure out what good gas does and what low octane will do. Its just safer to keep air load low, compared to checking it with max air load at WOT.

Or just have a soft tune and trust the sensors/ ECU will have your back. Which is what I do when not planning on racing/ having fun and just commuting.

 

[Cordero1]

How is it 200 percent ethanol?

Thats what comes out as final product. 190 & 200. Thats what the trucks pick up & take from here. 200 & 190 proof.

 

[Cory S]

Thats what comes out as final product. 190 & 200. Thats what the trucks pick up & take from here. 200 & 190 proof.

Proof and % are two different things...... 100%=200 Proof.

 

[Cordero1]

The percentage in the fuel is the what is added from what is taken from the plant. It leaves as 200- minus denaturant that gets added before loading. Out of that %200 only such percent gets added to the fuel to give you what you get at the pump. E85 would be 85% of the 200. I take it you just like to contradict anything & be 100% right so Ill leave it at that. You are & always will be %100 correct. Also I was trying not to keep replying to this thread so as not to clog it but a little late for that.

 

[Cory S]

The percentage in the fuel is the what is added from what is taken from the plant. It leaves as 200- minus denaturant that gets added before loading. Out of that %200 only such percent gets added to the fuel to give you what you get at the pump. E85 would be 85% of the 200. I take it you just like to contradict anything & be 100% right so Ill leave it at that. You are & always will be %100 correct. Also I was trying not to keep replying to this thread so as not to clog it but a little late for that.

Not contradicting bud. Just clarifying. Start with 100% of something, not 200%....

Proof is double the alcohol %. Just a question/discussion. Nothing more.

 

[andrewtac]

Not contradicting bud. Just clarifying. Start with 100% of something, not 200%....

Proof is double the alcohol %. Just a question/discussion. Nothing more.

Yes, sorry this is basic math, which is the language of science. I am not trying to be rude, or mean any disrespect. You cannot have 200% content of a substance only 100%. You take the total amout of the substance (in this case ethanol) and divide it by the total amount of the substance (in this case ethanol and what ever other checmicals in it). It can grow 200% of its original size (this would mean 3 times its original size), but not have 200% content.

 

[Cordero1]

Not contradicting bud. Just clarifying. Start with 100% of something, not 200%....

Proof is double the alcohol %. Just a question/discussion. Nothing more.

My apologies, was just getting off a 14 hr shift & got hit with a meeting at the last minute. I was arguing in my head with myself. Yes you are correct, 200 proof is not same as 200%. Ill read more into it & continueto talk to my lab guy to learn more about the process. I am just a simple ethanol cook (pee on) in the end.

 

[Grimreaper]

When running an aggressive tune, I always watch air load and knock, when testing a new tank of fuels knock resistance. I do this 10 miles after fill up, then again after the first 1/4 tank.
Part throttle holding around 2000 RPMs in 4th(6r80) or 7th(10R80). I only apply enough throttle to get airload to between .45-.65 and try to hold it steady. If the knock advance gets to 8-10* its good for WOT. If it only gets to 4 or less, I just drive easy until that tank clears out. Its really the only way to see if you really are getting that 91/93 as advertised.

Others tunes may vary with how much they can add at that RPM and load, but you can pretty quickly figure out what good gas does and what low octane will do. Its just safer to keep air load low, compared to checking it with max air load at WOT.

Or just have a soft tune and trust the sensors/ ECU will have your back. Which is what I do when not planning on racing/ having fun and just commuting.

Mark what mapped point or cam angle are you usually in?

On the roush tune that's 17 or 18. I need to check there is room between borderline and mbt. Normally I find 20 or 21 with more of a gap and KR adding. But load is also higher

Thats clever though. And a lot less stress on the engine

 

[markmurfie]

Mark what mapped point or cam angle are you usually in?

On the roush tune that's 17 or 18. I need to check there is room between borderline and mbt. Normally I find 20 or 21 with more of a gap and KR adding. But load is also higher

Thats clever though. And a lot less stress on the engine

I think what you should be asking is "what are my knock adative learning enable settings, or do I even use adaptive?"

It can open a can of worms tring to figuring out why your car is fast one week then slow the next.
Good concept for global supply of cars, not so much for making a car go fast consistently.
I just use the same parameters for my manual octane detection window. Sort of a blend of what I've seen comparing different calibrations of different cars.

 

[dead_inside]

Update: I pulled the intercooler, charge pipes, and belt. Checked the idlers for noise and heard none. The kit is really well made with the only critique from me being the passenger side charge pipe could taper down like the drivers side for a slightly better fitment but this is a minor thing at most. Saw nothing that was hard plastic or metal contacting but clocked the hose clamps at different angles hoping for improvement anyway. There was and still is plenty of clearance. I also relocated the wire bundle behind the intercooler, didn't like that at all, and put it back in front, and secured it to the crash bar with some zip ties. Brevin at ESS said there should be no way anything intercooler related could cause false knock because the vibration can't travel through the silicon charge pipes but I'm taking no chances at this point. Shifter bracket was tight and no rattles from the exhaust. I did some 3rd gear WOT logs and all 3 runs showed various levels of knock but the highest was under +1*. The third and last pull had the most timing being added (-4*) which is the opposite of all rounds of logging up to this point where the last log always had the most timing being pulled. I still need to get the swill of old winter gas, octane booster, and 100 octane out of the tank, fill up with some 92, and get some logging done. I will update again when I can do that.

 

[gcadorette13]

@Colin1337

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