False knock? Looking for help.

[dead_inside]

To anyone following along. My plan right now is to get the car up this weekend, pull the bumper, pull the charge pipes, pull the belt, loosen the intercooler, check the idlers for noise, put everything back, and re-torque everything down. I will check my shifter bracket and any other spots mentioned here as well. I'm going to drive around to mostly empty the tank and get back to a neutral point with a fill up of 92. I'll will get some logs after that and see where we are.

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[beetle6986]

What leads you to believe it is false knock? Round 1 logs show a lot of knock with it consistently pulling around 5 degrees or more. you added higher octane fuel for Round 3 (I checked the first 2 logs) and it detected no knock and was adding 3+ degrees of timing. That much of a difference just by changing the fuel would lead me to believe it isn't false knock.

 

[Cordero1]

The last two post are the ones that make the most sense. I would put the car back together & use a different gas station with higher quality fuel or try running E85.

 

[dead_inside]

What leads you to believe it is false knock? Round 1 logs show a lot of knock with it consistently pulling around 5 degrees or more. you added higher octane fuel for Round 3 (I checked the first 2 logs) and it detected no knock and was adding 3+ degrees of timing. That much of a difference just by changing the fuel would lead me to believe it isn't false knock.

That's what I'm being told while working with the tuner and following their recommendations. The octane booster seems like the gold standard test for identifying false vs real knock. Adding a can to a tank of 92 made no difference in the second round of logging. Adding the 100 octane was just something I did on my own to see how it affected the numbers. I also added some padding where the intercooler was contacting the bumper, so that was my bad for changing multiple things at once and then measuring results. I do agree that it being progressive/inconsistent throughout the pulls makes it a hard case for a consistent vibration in my layman understanding, so I'm deferring to the experts. The offer was made to turn down the knock sensors and I will try everything I can to avoid that.

The last two post are the ones that make the most sense. I would put the car back together & use a different gas station with higher quality fuel or try running E85.

I would love to run corn but there is none in this state. I looked online and saw others in the NW forum posting asking the same. Its an easy enough test though, I will drive the remaining gas out of the tank, fill up, and grab another log this week before tearing everything apart. I always get top tier gas, so fingers crossed that it's higher quality this round but you know how that is.

 

[Cordero1]

I remember my 1st log after boost with Lund. Tuner sent me a response saying "When you want to get serious about your tune, put high quality gas in your tank" lol. Drove around untilI found the 1 gas station that had %100 unleaded. Tunning resumed without a snag.

 

[dead_inside]

I remember my 1st log after boost with Lund. Tuner sent me a response saying "When you want to get serious about your tune, put high quality gas in your tank" lol. Drove around untilI found the 1 gas station that had %100 unleaded. Tunning resumed without a snag.

I have a no ethanol pump near me. I will give it a try!

 

[Cordero1]

I have a no ethanol pump near me. I will give it a try!

I make Ethanol for a living & somehow my town has shit e85. Yeah we have many stations, but for having 2 ethanol plants in 1 town you'd figure we would have quality E85. Then again we also have a Slaughter house & a shit quality steak house lol. Good luck! If all else fails you could order in 5 gallons of good fuel & test with that. It would at least give you a definite answer as to weather its your fuel or not.

 

[Cory S]

I make Ethanol for a living & somehow my town has shit e85. Yeah we have many stations, but for having 2 ethanol plants in 1 town you'd figure we would have quality E85. Then again we also have a Slaughter house & a shit quality steak house lol. Good luck! If all else fails you could order in 5 gallons of good fuel & test with that. It would at least give you a definite answer as to weather its your fuel or not.

What exactly is “shit” E85? Just less content % by volume? Or literally “shit” in the refining process? Lol.

 

[Cordero1]

What exactly is “shit” E85? Just less content % by volume? Or literally “shit” in the refining process? Lol.

E85 that always reads minimum which is E70

 

[Cory S]

E85 that always reads minimum which is E70

So why is that “Shit”? 70% IMO, is an ideal blend that still promotes just about the same effective cooling and anti knock resistance as 85%, yet allows for slightly quicker starts in cooler weather and brings a little better fuel mileage. An insufficient blend would be hoping to test E70+, and having it test at 45-50%.

 

[Cordero1]

Its shit imo because ethanol companies put out up to 200% ethanol content, but they break it down to %70 & charge you for 85 for greedyness only. Its still better than 91 premium, but when they claim to have e85 yet test to %70 all year long then why call it 85 & not 70?

 

[Cory S]

Its shit imo because ethanol companies put out up to 200% ethanol content, but they break it down to %70 & charge you for 85 for greedyness only. Its still better than 91 premium, but when they claim to have e85 yet test to %70 all year long then why call it 85 & not 70?

I agree with that. Another thing, is how do people know they are getting 91 or 93 octane at the pump when most cars will operate as normal to the owners even if it was 89 that they were actually getting.....

 

[Cordero1]

I agree with that. Another thing, is how do people know they are getting 91 or 93 octane at the pump when most cars will operate as normal to the owners even if it was 89 that they were actually getting.....

Yeah Ive thought about that many times. Youd have to do a data log with every tank to look for knock. Would be nice to have a tester the was we have one for the corn.

 

[beetle6986]

That's what I'm being told while working with the tuner and following their recommendations. The octane booster seems like the gold standard test for identifying false vs real knock. Adding a can to a tank of 92 made no difference in the second round of logging. Adding the 100 octane was just something I did on my own to see how it affected the numbers. I also added some padding where the intercooler was contacting the bumper, so that was my bad for changing multiple things at once and then measuring results. I do agree that it being progressive/inconsistent throughout the pulls makes it a hard case for a consistent vibration in my layman understanding, so I'm deferring to the experts. The offer was made to turn down the knock sensors and I will try everything I can to avoid that.

So pump gas and a can of octane booster got the same results for run 1 and 2? If it was actual engine knock, then I would expect to see an improvement here. I see they both pulled around 5 degrees of timing. This supports the idea that is is in fact false knock. Your 3rd run looks great. I figured this was due to the 100 octane. However, you said you added some padding also because of a rattle of some sort. They may be the issue. I would go do another run with pump gas with no octane booster and with the padding that fixed the rattle. If the knock is better than what you had here in run 1, then you discovered the issue and it is false knock due to the rattle.

I would never turn down the knock sensors especially on a boosted car.

Its shit imo because ethanol companies put out up to 200% ethanol content, but they break it down to %70 & charge you for 85 for greedyness only. Its still better than 91 premium, but when they claim to have e85 yet test to %70 all year long then why call it 85 & not 70?

I get e85 at the pumps in the summer time here in PA. In the winter time they lower it to around e70 because some cars run rough in the cold weather with full e85.

 

[dead_inside]

So pump gas and a can of octane booster got the same results for run 1 and 2? If it was actual engine knock, then I would expect to see an improvement here. I see they both pulled around 5 degrees of timing. This supports the idea that is is in fact false knock. Your 3rd run looks great. I figured this was due to the 100 octane. However, you said you added some padding also because of a rattle of some sort. They may be the issue. I would go do another run with pump gas with no octane booster and with the padding that fixed the rattle. If the knock is better than what you had here in run 1, then you discovered the issue and it is false knock due to the rattle.

I would never turn down the knock sensors especially on a boosted car.

Yeah, the can of octane booster was added in round 2. The timing being pulled was almost identical to the previous runs without it. I'm definitely going to have to be more meticulous about my approach for testing. I have a plan in place that is very much what you have suggested. I'm going to drive the remaining gas out of the tank, fill up with 92, and log with the padding in place. That will give me a true baseline. Then go from there based on results.

Of course I want the magic to happen when I mash the gas pedal but I knew what I was signing up for what I decided to go boosted. I will get better data and proceed with better testing and report back to anyone following along.

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