"expected" weight gain

[Dirk McGurck]

There's no point to having more than an i4 either considering there's a 40 mph speed limit most places and 65 on fwys. Last I checked prius's can do those speeds just fine.

See my argument here? People do it for fun and bragging rights

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Okay.

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[Grimace427]

Ford did something like this when they announced the 2013 GT500. They said the 5.8L would make 650 hp and 600 ft lbs. The final numbers came in at 662 hp and 631 ft lbs of torque. So just because GM does something a certain way doesn't mean Ford will follow suit. That goes for weight savings too. Just because the C7 became heavier doesn't mean the Mustang will also. Last I checked Ford isn't GM.

I thought it was just the magazines speculating the new GT500 would have 650/600 and it wasn't until Ford unveiled the car that Ford also released the actual numbers.

 

[Dub347sbf]

I thought it was just the magazines speculating the new GT500 would have 650/600 and it wasn't until Ford unveiled the car that Ford also released the actual numbers.

Oh the build up was much more awesome, it was in excess of 600 HP first. Then 625+. Then everyone said 650. Then ford was like here bitch. (Zl1)

 

[Derk]

How to make a 3700+ lb 2015 Mustang perform:
*Design it to handle bigger tires, brakes, engine, suspension...+$
*Throw 6 piston brakes at it...+$
*Throw horsepower at it...+$
*Throw fancy stiff suspension at it...+$
*Throw massive rubber at it...+$

How do you make the pig faster? Spend massive amounts of money for even better parts than Ford threw at it to make it competitive in the first place.

How do you make the <3400 lb 2015 Mustang perform?
*Design it to be lighter...+$
*Dont throw larger brakes at it to stop better...-$
*Don't throw more parts for more power...-$
*Don't have to throw fancy stiff suspension...-$
*Don't have to put massive rubber on it...-$

How do you make this car faster. Throw that stuff at it that Ford was going to throw at it just to make it competitive.

Which car is going to be more:
*Expensive initially?
*Expensive to maintain?
*Fuel efficient?
*Expensive to make faster?

 

[nametoshowothers]

I thought it was just the magazines speculating the new GT500 would have 650/600 and it wasn't until Ford unveiled the car that Ford also released the actual numbers.

No actual ford documents showed 650 hp, even the main website for building your own did for awhile as well

 

[Taneras]

How to make a 3700+ lb 2015 Mustang perform:
*Design it to handle bigger tires, brakes, engine, suspension...+$
*Throw 6 piston brakes at it...+$
*Throw horsepower at it...+$
*Throw fancy stiff suspension at it...+$
*Throw massive rubber at it...+$

How do you make the pig faster? Spend massive amounts of money for even better parts than Ford threw at it to make it competitive in the first place.

How do you make the <3400 lb 2015 Mustang perform?
*Design it to be lighter...+$
*Dont throw larger brakes at it to stop better...-$
*Don't throw more parts for more power...-$
*Don't have to throw fancy stiff suspension...-$
*Don't have to put massive rubber on it...-$

How do you make this car faster. Throw that stuff at it that Ford was going to throw at it just to make it competitive.

Which car is going to be more:
*Expensive initially?
*Expensive to maintain?
*Fuel efficient?
*Expensive to make faster?

The difference in components needed to support an extra 300lbs, which would actually only end up being around 75lbs per tire, isn't really worth mentioning. Now buying enough light material that is just as strong as the stuff its replacing to drop 300lbs, on the other hand, is very expensive.

If its easy to get a 400+hp 4 seater sports car to weigh in at around 3300lbs and keep the base price around 32k, where are all these cars at? Please tell me, I'd like to know. It'd give me something else to consider buying in place of the mustang.

 

[Derk]

The difference in components needed to support an extra 300lbs, which would actually only end up being around 75lbs per tire, isn't really worth mentioning. Now buying enough light material that is just as strong as the stuff its replacing to drop 300lbs, on the other hand, is very expensive.

If its easy to get a 400+hp 4 seater sports car to weigh in at around 3300lbs and keep the base price around 32k, where are all these cars at? Please tell me, I'd like to know. It'd give me something else to consider buying in place of the mustang.

So you would be fine with the Mustang gaining 300 lbs? Because that's only 75 lb a tire...

And why aren't there tons of these cars?

Why?
Equal price +"better" parts = WIN
Right?

Even if the performance is the same?

All those things look good on paper...until people start to realize the performance is the same and it's cheaper to upgrade the performance of one car because it doesn't have to start off with better parts for the same time.

At what point do you stop throwing bandaids at the weight problem and start working on actually fixing the problem? Weight is the one thing that you can spend money on once and it positively effect every measurable a car has. Instead of throwing expensive brakes to make it stop better, redesign and upgrade motor parts to make it go faster, make the motor more complicated for more fuel efficiency, and put stiffer more sophisticated suspension to make it handle better.

 

[Grimace427]

So you would be fine with the Mustang gaining 300 lbs? Because that's only 75 lb a tire...

And why aren't there tons of these cars?

Why?
Equal price +"better" parts = WIN
Right?

Even if the performance is the same?

All those things look good on paper...until people start to realize the performance is the same and it's cheaper to upgrade the performance of one car because it doesn't have to start off with better parts for the same time.

At what point do you stop throwing bandaids at the weight problem and start working on actually fixing the problem? Weight is the one thing that you can spend money on once and it positively effect every measurable a car has. Instead of throwing expensive brakes to make it stop better, redesign and upgrade motor parts to make it go faster, make the motor more complicated for more fuel efficiency, and put stiffer more sophisticated suspension to make it handle better.

I would like to reiterate Taneras' question, if making a 400+hp, 3,300lb, 4-seat sports car for less than $32,000 is such a brilliant idea where is the competition? Where are the other similar cars? The only one I can think of is the M3/4 which is easily double that price.

I think Ford can make the Mustang below 3,500lbs while keeping many of the features of the outgoing 5.0. 3,300 seems like a stretch to me, especially at the current price point.

 

[Taneras]

So you would be fine with the Mustang gaining 300 lbs? Because that's only 75 lb a tire...

Gaining? You act as if its already built weighing 3300lbs and I'm arguing that I want it heavier. You mean losing 300lbs, and yea I would be against it because of what it would do to the cost. No way Ford can shave off 300lbs of fat and keep it anywhere near what its going to cost now.

The 75lbs a tire bit was to show how outlandish your claims were about what sort of supporting hardware would be needed to accommodate 300lbs of extra weight... "massive rubber" huh?

It would be a lot cheaper to accommodate 300lbs with supporting hardware than it would be to shave off 300lbs without losing structural strength.

And why aren't there tons of these cars?

Why?
Equal price +"better" parts = WIN
Right?

Even if the performance is the same?

All those things look good on paper...until people start to realize the performance is the same and it's cheaper to upgrade the performance of one car because it doesn't have to start off with better parts for the same time.

I have no clue what you're saying here. Ford can't put on better parts, drop 300lbs, sell it for a few thousand over 30k and still come out in the black.

They're a business and they're purpose is to make money.

At what point do you stop throwing bandaids at the weight problem and start working on actually fixing the problem? Weight is the one thing that you can spend money on once and it positively effect every measurable a car has. Instead of throwing expensive brakes to make it stop better, redesign and upgrade motor parts to make it go faster, make the motor more complicated for more fuel efficiency, and put stiffer more sophisticated suspension to make it handle better.

Again, the supporting hardware to support 300 extra pounds is a lot cheaper than putting the mustang on a 300 pound diet. Increasing the price too much will put the Mustang out of the target audience Ford built this car for.

 

[Derk]

I would like to reiterate Taneras' question, if making a 400+hp, 3,300lb, 4-seat sports car for less than $32,000 is such a brilliant idea where is the competition? Where are the other similar cars? The only one I can think of is the M3/4 which is easily double that price.

I think Ford can make the Mustang below 3,500lbs while keeping many of the features of the outgoing 5.0. 3,300 seems like a stretch to me, especially at the current price point.

Because they didn't have to.

Which would you buy:
*$32k
*15" brakes
*295mm tires
*450hp
*18/24 mpg
-or-
*32k
*13" brakes
*275mm tires
*420hp
*20/25 mpg

95% would go with the first particularly when I tell you the first is .2 faster in the 1/4 mile and a couple tenths faster on a lap.

 

[eurospeed]

I would like to reiterate Taneras' question, if making a 400+hp, 3,300lb, 4-seat sports car for less than $32,000 is such a brilliant idea where is the competition? Where are the other similar cars? The only one I can think of is the M3/4 which is easily double that price.

Why is there a perception that a car needs to have 400+ HP? Take a closer look at power to weight ratios. If Ford could deliver a 3000 lb Mustang with the right weight, balance, and handling, you wouldn't need such a large engine for equivalent performance; hence cost should decrease accordingly.

Sadly, for RWD cars, we don't have many options in general. Here's a quick list of similarly priced sports cars fitting the RWD, 2+2 criteria:

Mustang GT => 420 HP, 3600 lb ($31K), P:W (0.12)
Chevy Camaro 1SS => 426 HP, 3900 lb ($33K), P:W (0.11)
Hyundai Genesis Coupe => 348 HP, 3400 lb ($30K), P:W (0.10)
Dodge Challenger R/T+ => 375 HP, 4100 lb ($32K), P:W (0.09)
Scion FR-S => 200 HP, 2600 lb ($26K), P:W (0.08)
BMW 128i => 230 HP, 3200 lb ($32K), P:W (0.07)

 

[VIN666]

Doesn't matter how you look at it, the Mustang, much like the C7, is without competition in it's segment.
That may change depending on what the General has in store for the Camaro, but for the time being - Stang FTW.

 

[Thed]

I hope what you hear is correct.

If you think about it, 10% of the 2014 V6's 3501lbs is 350lbs.

Can the EB4 weigh 3151lbs?

If it can, then it won't surprise me if the GT's were right around 3400lbs (3360-3440lbs).

I have always heard the Ecoboost car was going to be light. I figured if the car came in at or around 3200lbs, the GT would be in the 3420lbs range (3301lbs for the V6).

That's is

a.) The 10% weight loss was met on the MPG/base model.

b.) The 200lbs goal was met for Team Mustang (GT level).

c.) Potential for more weight loss in the future.

I know a lot of people base weight loss from platform to platform on wheelbase/track.

The car looks 500lbs lighter... I heard it moves like it did too...

Straight from a Ford employee.

 

[Pitch]

Haha ^^

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[Derk]

Gaining? You act as if its already built weighing 3300lbs and I'm arguing that I want it heavier. You mean losing 300lbs, and yea I would be against it because of what it would do to the cost. No way Ford can shave off 300lbs of fat and keep it anywhere near what its going to cost now.

The 75lbs a tire bit was to show how outlandish your claims were about what sort of supporting hardware would be needed to accommodate 300lbs of extra weight... "massive rubber" huh?

It would be a lot cheaper to accommodate 300lbs with supporting hardware than it would be to shave off 300lbs without losing structural strength.



I have no clue what you're saying here. Ford can't put on better parts, drop 300lbs, sell it for a few thousand over 30k and still come out in the black.

They're a business and they're purpose is to make money.



Again, the supporting hardware to support 300 extra pounds is a lot cheaper than putting the mustang on a 300 pound diet. Increasing the price too much will put the Mustang out of the target audience Ford built this car for.

I'm not saying trim the weight and throw the high ends parts on it. I'm saying trim the weight and let me add the high end parts. They designed a completely new car with way more design technology than the previous model. I'm not saying it had to be a three hundred pound trimming. 50 to 100 lb decrease would be great after adding the IRS. Particularly if you can get that out of the front of the car.

My 03 Mach weighed 3450ish...a flimsy chassis designed in the mid 70's. You are telling me 40 years later we don't have the technology to build the same chassis stronger, but the same weight, for around the same price?

That's like saying we can't expect a '15 5.0 motor to be more efficient, powerful, and smoother, than a '79 5.0 motor.

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