Edelbrock vs Gen 2 Whipple

[Stymee]

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt this graph show the whipple being a little faster?

To me it looks like EB
BUT I COULD BE WRONG

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[SVT-DADDY]

The red line is the worst....cool morning with the EB. The 2 lower lines are Whipple, those are the quicker times. Doesnt look like there is much difference anyway, except the smile on Burkeys face.

 

[Burkey]

The red line is the worst....cool morning with the EB. The 2 lower lines are Whipple, those are the quicker times. Doesnt look like there is much difference anyway, except the smile on Burkeys face.

Sorry for the confusion Steve, the lower lines are the slower ones.... Eg. For the same amount of time, the car failed to reach the same rpm. You’re dead right about the smile though. I haven’t stopped giggling.
I even gave the Whipple the benefit of more boost, more open exhaust, less weight and possibly a downhill run on what is highly likely to have been a cooler day. A huge portion of the Whipple logs were done single occupant in winter.
You are correct though, the difference in time shown on the graph is minimal.
Seat of the pants suggests to me that the Whipple would show more power at peak, possibly as much as 50hp at 8000 rpm.
Conversely, seat of the pants says that there’s no point below 7k where the Whipple felt faster.

 

[Torinate]

Sorry for the confusion Steve, the lower lines are the slower ones.... Eg. For the same amount of time, the car failed to reach the same rpm. You’re dead right about the smile though. I haven’t stopped giggling.
I even gave the Whipple the benefit of more boost, more open exhaust, less weight and possibly a downhill run on what is highly likely to have been a cooler day. A huge portion of the Whipple logs were done single occupant in winter.
You are correct though, the difference in time shown on the graph is minimal.
Seat of the pants suggests to me that the Whipple would show more power at peak, possibly as much as 50hp at 8000 rpm.
Conversely, seat of the pants says that there’s no point below 7k where the Whipple felt faster.

I re-read it again. I think you meant there is no point from idle to 7000 where the whipple felt faster.

Torque > hp.

I understood it correctly lol.

The EB gets higher in the RPMs quicker, revs quicker. For a given time, the EB hits a higher RPM and therefore higher hp and torque for that given time. Am I following correctly?

 

[Burkey]

I re-read it again. I think you meant there is no point from idle to 7000 where the whipple felt faster.

Torque > hp.

I understood it correctly lol.

The EB gets higher in the RPMs quicker, revs quicker. For a given time, the EB hits a higher RPM and therefore higher hp and torque for that given time. Am I following correctly?

Correct.

 

[Burkey]

For those following along, the original tuner is now making some really good progress.
VERY aggressive. Feels even angrier than before. No data yet cos I haven’t managed to make it hook in third yet despite every attempt. Looks like all future logs might have to be done in fourth gear which is actually kinda scary after today’s episode where it started skating a little at 6k in 4th (~100mph) as shown here:
https://datazap.me/u/burkey75/log-1570601054?log=2&data=0-2-15&solo=15&zoom=103-388

 

[Jobodizo]

For those following along, the original tuner is now making some really good progress.
VERY aggressive. Feels even angrier than before. No data yet cos I haven’t managed to make it hook in third yet despite every attempt. Looks like all future logs might have to be done in fourth gear which is actually kinda scary after today’s episode where it started skating a little at 6k in 4th (~100mph) as shown here:
https://datazap.me/u/burkey75/log-1570601054?log=2&data=0-2-15&solo=15&zoom=103-388

Yah, my 275 555G2's don't hook worth anything above 5k rpm. A 3rd gear downshift on the interstate is scary, and I only have the stage 1 with a tune!

At least you're getting to where you want to be now. For somebody who was down for 6 weeks with tune issues, I know how frustrating it is to quadruple-check your own work only to realize somebody else screwed up!

 

[Burkey]

Yah, my 275 555G2's don't hook worth anything above 5k rpm. A 3rd gear downshift on the interstate is scary, and I only have the stage 1 with a tune!

At least you're getting to where you want to be now. For somebody who was down for 6 weeks with tune issues, I know how frustrating it is to quadruple-check your own work only to realize somebody else screwed up!

Lol. It’s just far too much fun. Peeling the tyres off at 30mph in third is pretty funny. Passengers shit themselves the first time (Having said that, I’ve also shat more than once, but that’s the whole point of the exercise)
It certainly wasn’t fun having to octuple check EVERYTHING, particularly when you’re 99.9% confident there’s nothing wrong.
On the bright side, I now have two tunes for the car. One is more aggressive, the other drives a bit nicer. The drivability difference is now really at the splitting hairs level though and the aggressive side of it really only shows at the mid to bottom end of the rev range.

 

[wsfrazier]

The tires they put on the 19 PP cars must be quite a bit better than previous years. My 2nd gear with my Eddy and PBD tune actually hold pretty good, I'm about 50/50 spinning in 2nd, let alone losing traction in 3rd.

 

[Burkey]

The tires they put on the 19 PP cars must be quite a bit better than previous years. My 2nd gear with my Eddy and PBD tune actually hold pretty good, I'm about 50/50 spinning in 2nd, let alone losing traction in 3rd.

Not sure. I’m on 295/35/20 Continental 5p’s (more grip than the Pzero the car came with).
The taller gears of the 18-19 MT82 won’t be helping you.
Your final drive is 5% shorter than mine but my 3rd gear is 19% shorter than yours (without taking final drive into consideration).
3rd gear
1.686 x 3.55 = 5.98
1.42 x 3.73 = 5.29
Total difference 13%

2nd gear
2.43 x 3.55 = 8.63
2.10 x 3.73 = 7.83
Difference 10%

You’d basically need to swap to 4.1s to be around the same mark.

That’s a fundamental reason why I’m not a fan of the new ratios. Less cog swaps of course, but also less aggressive acceleration. I assume it’s all to do with emissions targets.

Long tubes? Cats? You’re on the smaller TB too from memory? Pulley size?
Feel free to drop a log on here, I’d be keen to take a look at it.

 

[Burkey]

Virtual Dyno didn’t work out as expected...
I wasn’t fussed with the numbers so much as the shape of the curve (ignore the actual figures).
Hitting bumps at 120+mph makes the data pretty much useless.
15* of spark at the bottom, 19* up top, no octane booster, sub 93 octane fuel.
Link to log here -
https://datazap.me/u/burkey75/log-1571356586?log=1&data=1-2-6-16&zoom=152-300&mark=106-66

 

[Beano]

Nice read, Burkey, cheers Mate ;)

Probably my aim too, so will stick with TVS over Whipple, tbh. Thanx for the heads-up. Now to start planning the right gear around my Roush to get it to a decent level....

Beano

 

[Burkey]

Nice read, Burkey, cheers Mate ;)

Probably my aim too, so will stick with TVS over Whipple, tbh. Thanx for the heads-up. Now to start planning the right gear around my Roush to get it to a decent level....

Beano

Glad you liked it.
Typically, you’ll want to pulley down, throw a different intake on it and throw some injectors and a fuel pump or BAP at it. The Roush tune is pretty damn conservative.
I played a part in helping a mate with his 15-17 Roush blown car.
From memory, Lund suggested that simply swapping out the Roush intake for a JLT (or similar) could yield 1-2psi boost increase, it’s THAT restrictive.
By the time we’d finished, his 2300 Roush car became an entirely different rig, going from mid 120mph trap to mid 130s. Pretty good for a full weight car on our Aussie fuel.
He’s since decided to add some more gear, larger heat exchanger, larger TB (twin 65) etc etc
It’ll be interesting to see how it all goes.

 

[Beano]

Good advice, thanx ;)

I will do the injectors, intake, fuel-assy, twin-TB and larger heat-exchanger in one go, as well as most likely nGauge, billet OPG/crank sprocket. That will leave me with a good saving to also do the T56 Magnum XL change-over I was planning.

Can’t wait to get rid of the restrictive gear/tune on this car, it has a lot of good potential as a decent street-racer....I might even do E85 now then too, seeing as it is pretty available here in VIC.

 

[plasmid]

@Burkey

This was a good read. I'm in Melbourne and the temps are probably not as high here.

I have been contemplating in a DIY install of the Edelbrock TVS2300 on my 17 GT (manual). I was thinking just the stage 1 install at this stage.

I was hoping that either yourself or someone else can help me out with some questions I have.

I've been doing a ton of research and feel comfortable with the install but just had some questions.

-Do all RHD cars require the trimming of the K-brace to fit the e-force? Obviously no mention of this on the Edelbrock manual. My car is on factory engine mounts.

-I presume the heater hoses wouldn't have been an issue for you if you hadn't modified them for the Whipple?

-Each seller/website seems to have different part #/SKU, with different descriptions and prices. I am not sure if the stage 1 kit comes with spark plugs and or injectors. I plan on changing out the plugs but wasn't sure if I could get away with the factory injectors.

-Some kits can be purchased with an Edelbrock tune. My car has aftermarket headers and cats and wasn't sure if the Edelbrock tune would work? Otherwise I was going to stick with Lund as I am currently tuned with them and are familiar with the process.

Sorry for all the questions. Hope someone can chime in.

Cheers.

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