Edelbrock vs Gen 2 Whipple

[BlueCollarDaily]

I edited the post and now has the data log. Keep in mind the is a cold soaked motor on startup. I can post another log to show was it looks like warmed as well.

Yea full heat soaked please at 7200rpm ;)

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[Roh92cp]

Yea full heat soaked please at 7200rpm ;)

This is close

https://datazap.me/u/roh92cp/log-1569356303?log=0&data=2-3-4-14-25

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

This is close

https://datazap.me/u/roh92cp/log-1569356303?log=0&data=2-3-4-14-25

IF I am looking at that right there is an ENORMOUS difference in actual vs break out in that one?

Really greater than 15 degrees real temp vs breakout!!!

 

[Roh92cp]

IF I am looking at that right there is an ENORMOUS difference in actual vs break out in that one?

Really greater than 15 degrees real temp vs breakout!!!

Yes there is always a difference, but it changes some depending on the temps. Around 50-70 IAT2 the delta is 15-20 and at 80-100 it's 10-15 delta and 100-120 it's around 10.

 

[Burkey]

Ok. FINALLY starting to get somewhere with all of this!
I basically put it back on the tuner and insisted that there’s no reason for the car to be knocking other than the tune. Tuner had a look and the results are very promising.
15* spark from below 3000rpm, peaking at 17*

No knock at WOT. Still some knock activity at part throttle, but again, I feel that this is resulting from a tune that’s trying to use the wrong spark tables. Actual timing is quite healthy at part throttle. Fuel trims are still crazy.
Logs below.
Log 22 is idle and normal driving.
Logs 23 and 24 include WOT pulls in third.
https://datazap.me/u/burkey75/log-1569488328?log=0&data=2
https://datazap.me/u/burkey75/log-1569488328?log=1
https://datazap.me/u/burkey75/log-1569488328?log=2&data=2

 

[Roh92cp]

Wow...When you went full throttle at 2300 RPM to 6500 there was 0 knock on log 24. They are on to something now
How did it feel?

I noticed on log 23 you got a short spike of knock when you slammed the throttle open at 2400 rpm. I would try easing into the throttle at 3k to not activate burst knock which I've seen if I floor it hard too low.

 

[aleccolin]

What plugs are you using? Ford uses ion-sensing knock detection the same as many other OEMs, which are very low voltage, so a change in the plug even just a step down in heat range could make a difference.

The injectors themselves could contribute also, if it's in the right frequency range.

 

[Burkey]

What plugs are you using? Ford uses ion-sensing knock detection the same as many other OEMs, which are very low voltage, so a change in the plug even just a step down in heat range could make a difference.

NGK 6510s gapped to 0.028”
Originally, I carried the plugs over from the Whipple, then replaced them just in case.

 

[Burkey]

Wow...When you went full throttle at 2300 RPM to 6500 there was 0 knock on log 24. They are on to something now
How did it feel?

I noticed on log 23 you got a short spike of knock when you slammed the throttle open at 2400 rpm. I would try easing into the throttle at 3k to not activate burst knock which I've seen if I floor it hard too low.

It pulls pretty damn hard. The logs you see were recorded after doing several WOT pulls.
The first few attempts were nothing but wheelspin from 2000 rpm and beyond.
Had to go and find some really coarse bitumen to get it to hook up (although it was still skating a fair bit in the logs)
On a cooler day, this thing will be HILARIOUS!
Ambient temp was 80*f at the time of the logs, IAT2 was around 95*f

Also, I loaded a tune from another company this morning.
No knock at partial throttle. In fact, it’s ADDING timing.
I think it’s fair to say that I’ve spent a month or more chasing issues on my side that don’t exist.
Very frustrating but at the same time, I don’t mind learning and this has certainly provoked some head-scratching along the way.

 

[Roh92cp]

It pulls pretty damn hard. The logs you see were recorded after doing several WOT pulls.
The first few attempts were nothing but wheelspin from 2000 rpm and beyond.
Had to go and find some really coarse bitumen to get it to hook up (although it was still skating a fair bit in the logs)
On a cooler day, this thing will be HILARIOUS!
Ambient temp was 80*f at the time of the logs, IAT2 was around 95*f

Also, I loaded a tune from another company this morning.
No knock at partial throttle. In fact, it’s ADDING timing.
I think it’s fair to say that I’ve spent a month or more chasing issues on my side that don’t exist.
Very frustrating but at the same time, I don’t mind learning and this has certainly provoked some head-scratching along the way.

Nice you have other cal to compare. Could you post a WOT of the other cal here?

 

[Burkey]

Nice you have other cal to compare. Could you post a WOT of the other cal here?

No dramas. Just have to get the tune/s finalised.
Eventually I’ll overlay the Whipple against the Edelbrock showing time vs speed.
That should tell the whole story, outside of the variation in temp on the days of the pulls.
I’ll use the same piece of road and the the exact same point to commence the pulls to remove variation for gradient. I did the same thing with the Whipple over and over again on a variety of tunes/days/seasons/etc
The data I’ll be using for the Whipple will be the best of those vs whatever the hell the Edelbrock produces from a single attempt on a given day.
I don’t think anyone can really argue with that. It’s as good as it gets without a dyno I think.

 

[Roh92cp]

No dramas. Just have to get the tune/s finalised.
Eventually I’ll overlay the Whipple against the Edelbrock showing time vs speed.
That should tell the whole story, outside of the variation in temp on the days of the pulls.
I’ll use the same piece of road and the the exact same point to commence the pulls to remove variation for gradient. I did the same thing with the Whipple over and over again on a variety of tunes/days/seasons/etc
The data I’ll be using for the Whipple will be the best of those vs whatever the hell the Edelbrock produces from a single attempt on a given day.
I don’t think anyone can really argue with that. It’s as good as it gets without a dyno I think.

That will be great info to see.

 

[SVT-DADDY]

No dramas. Just have to get the tune/s finalised.
Eventually I’ll overlay the Whipple against the Edelbrock showing time vs speed.
That should tell the whole story, outside of the variation in temp on the days of the pulls.
I’ll use the same piece of road and the the exact same point to commence the pulls to remove variation for gradient. I did the same thing with the Whipple over and over again on a variety of tunes/days/seasons/etc
The data I’ll be using for the Whipple will be the best of those vs whatever the hell the Edelbrock produces from a single attempt on a given day.
I don’t think anyone can really argue with that. It’s as good as it gets without a dyno I think.

I'm going to go on record with a prediction.....

I'm guessing the whipple will be a little faster,but the Edlebrock will feel better in terms of "seat of the pants".

I'm really interested in the outcome!

 

[Jobodizo]

@Burkey sounds like you're finally getting there with the second tuner. Getting close to finalizing?

 

[Burkey]

@Burkey sounds like you're finally getting there with the second tuner. Getting close to finalizing?

Yeah mate, getting close. If I could spend less time away from the car with my career that would help out a lot.
In a nutshell, and without mentioning names, one of the tuners has it 99.9% sorted, the other is still having dramas that I’m hoping to be able to resolve in the next few days.
Results aren’t far away, let’s say that.

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