Edelbrock vs Gen 2 Whipple

[Burkey]

@Burkey

This was a good read. I'm in Melbourne and the temps are probably not as high here.

I have been contemplating in a DIY install of the Edelbrock TVS2300 on my 17 GT (manual). I was thinking just the stage 1 install at this stage.

I was hoping that either yourself or someone else can help me out with some questions I have.

I've been doing a ton of research and feel comfortable with the install but just had some questions.

-Do all RHD cars require the trimming of the K-brace to fit the e-force? Obviously no mention of this on the Edelbrock manual. My car is on factory engine mounts.

-I presume the heater hoses wouldn't have been an issue for you if you hadn't modified them for the Whipple?

-Each seller/website seems to have different part #/SKU, with different descriptions and prices. I am not sure if the stage 1 kit comes with spark plugs and or injectors. I plan on changing out the plugs but wasn't sure if I could get away with the factory injectors.

-Some kits can be purchased with an Edelbrock tune. My car has aftermarket headers and cats and wasn't sure if the Edelbrock tune would work? Otherwise I was going to stick with Lund as I am currently tuned with them and are familiar with the process.

Sorry for all the questions. Hope someone can chime in.

Cheers.

Cool. Let’s see if we can get you sorted...

Yes, the K-brace and cowl will need some trimming on all RHD vehicles. Basically the design is slightly different on our cars. They actually mentioned it in the instructions for my kit. If you need any tips on the easiest way to do it, let me know. Happy to help out.

As you guessed, the heater hoses wouldn’t have been an issue on a stock car, although I did have to slightly bend the RHS “neck” because it ran too close to the blower for my liking (false knock is shit to chase).

Based on some (most?) reports, I’d avoid the Eddy tune. Lund do a great job and I’d continue on that path if I were you. Personally, I’ve run both the Lund tune and PBD. Lund have the drivability perfected, PBD lacks a little finesse but delivers a little extra kick. I’ve also recently had PBD do me an E30 tune but haven’t had a chance to fully test it. That’s another story entirely.

Pick your pulley, pick your tuner, throw some NGK 6510s at it (make sure you gap them to 0.028”) and call it a day.
Unless things have changed, Lund would also want you to run either a BAP or a DW400 pump as well. I’d be asking the question for sure.

Just bear in mind that the 2300 isn’t just a smaller unit than the 2650. The rotor pack is less efficient and it won’t have the newer modular inlet (meaning the 2300 can’t breathe as hard). You’d want a decent discount on it when compared to its replacement. The gap isn’t huge for most of the rev range but the older blower does fall over a bit up top, where the 2650 doesn’t seem to. Or at least not to the same extent.
You probably wouldn’t really notice it, but it’s worth knowing.

Any more questions, let me know.
Cheers

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[plasmid]

Hey @Burkey. Thanks for your quick response.

I was only thinking the 2300 over the 2600 purely for price. They both seem similar installs. The 2600 has the EVAP solenoid in a different spot.

Did you have any issues with the brake booster hose and the EVAP hose. In particular the LHD cars have a quick connect fitting for the EVAP hose at the firewall but the RHD don't. Did you just 'Macgyver' it? If that makes sense...

So just to clarify would a BAP be needed with stock injectors or just BAP needed full stop. Some kits include 50lb injectors.

Also, one last question. Once the factory intake manifold is removed what happens to the IMRC plugs/harnesses? Did you just zip tie out of the way? I'm pretty sure they don't get re-used.

Thank you sir...

 

[Burkey]

Hey @Burkey. Thanks for your quick response.

I was only thinking the 2300 over the 2600 purely for price. They both seem similar installs. The 2600 has the EVAP solenoid in a different spot.

Did you have any issues with the brake booster hose and the EVAP hose. In particular the LHD cars have a quick connect fitting for the EVAP hose at the firewall but the RHD don't. Did you just 'Macgyver' it? If that makes sense...

So just to clarify would a BAP be needed with stock injectors or just BAP needed full stop. Some kits include 50lb injectors.

Also, one last question. Once the factory intake manifold is removed what happens to the IMRC plugs/harnesses? Did you just zip tie out of the way? I'm pretty sure they don't get re-used.

Thank you sir...

The brake booster issue is solved with a simple barbed joiner.
Evap hose I dint get too excited about. Just cut the quick connect off an slide one hose over the other.
I’d suggest that you want to speak with Lund re BAP/pump/injectors. Back when I put my Whipple on, they weren’t keen on anything less than the DW95’s, with a preference for ID1050x’s in an ideal world. It’s not just the size of the injector that’s concerns them, it’s the quality of the data for the injector and the consistency across the set.
Just seal the ends of the plugs and zippy them to the harness, making sure they can’t rattle, not that they could or should cause false knock, but stranger things have happened and it’s a really shit spot to get to if you need to.
As far as trimming the K brace goes, the easiest way I found was to remove the wipers, remove the plastic cover, unbolt the Kbrace and trim/paint it away from the vehicle. It can be done in-situ, but it’s tricky. One slip and you’re in trouble. Why risk it?
Just remember to leave enough clearance for engine twist, especially on stock mounts.

 

[plasmid]

@Burkey

Some kits come with an Edelbrock tune. Is this enough to get me going? Is it safe? (I comfortable looking at some datalogging). Or would the Edelbrock tune throw up codes because of my aftermarket headers etc?

 

[Andrew@Lethal]

I figured some of you might want to see this, particularly as it’s a bit of a rare swap.
The new kit just landed a couple of days ago so I figured it might be worth noting the sometimes subtle/not so subtle differences as I move forward with the install.

Big thanks to Fred @Vogtland Mustang and Nick @Edelbrock Tech for helping me get this sucker happening.

This swap might not be for everyone!
I have a very specific situation.
The car is daily driven, sometimes (rarely) drag raced and the climate is DAMN HOT for 3/4 months of the year (120* in the shade, yes, the roads sometimes melt) and just plain hot at all times except the peak of winter.
Speed limits are generally 35mph, maxing out at 50mph for 95% of my driving, meaning airflow over the heat exchanger isn’t great.
E85 would be great, but with the nearest source at a 500 mile round trip, I’ll pass.

The Whipple was struggling to control inlet temps and basically sucked for what I want from it, except on a nice cool winters morning where the combination of a cold road and chilly IATs would allow it to blow the tyres off at 2k in third gear, which is precisely what I want all year round!
I don’t street race. I have my fun with wheelspin and drift.
Taller gears are far more fun than short ones in this respect and I really don’t feel that you should have to clutch-kick to get shit happening in a blown 5.0, but that’s just my opinion.

For clarity, the Gen 2 was running a 3.625” pulley, tuner box, 132mm TB and custom tune/s. 12psi recorded on the dyno, catless longtubes. Never used the Whipple calibration.
The Edelbrock will start on a 3.25” pulley, 103mm TB, custom tune. No idea what the actual boost level will be.

With all that out of the way....
Initial impressions.

The Edelbrock kit seems a lot simpler than the Whipple. Less parts, less cutting of heater hoses etc etc.
However, it also looks a little cheaper. It’s nitpicking I know, but Whipple supply a billet tensioner and idler plate while the Eddy is cast and machined, yada yada.
Whipple supply socket head cap screws throughout, Edelbrock don’t for the most part. Again, nitpicking, but I just prefer the appearance of SHCS vs regular bolts...

Edelbrock use metric fasteners throughout, whereas Whipple alternate between metric and imperial which is kind of frustrating during install and even more frustrating when you’re at the track and need to adjust the belt, only to remember that the adjustable idler uses imperial and all you have is metric.

Whipple’s instructions are far more specific than Edelbrock. There’s very little guess work with Whipple (even if the instructions are plain wrong at times) whereas there’s a bit of reading between the lines with Edlebrock.
Nothing serious, just an observation.

I haven’t reached the point where I have to lift the Edelbrock into place but I can already see it being a bit of a challenge. One piece construction makes it pretty damn heavy and to make it harder, I’ll have some phenolic spacers under there that also need to be lined up. Tricky when your pooper-valve is about to explode.
The phenolics should work. My engine is lowered 6mm and the spacers are 7mm.
Sourced them here in Australia from MFP. They also have other thicknesses available for those who may be interested.
I’ll probably have to play with belt lengths a little to allow for the extra route length. Unsure at this point.

Edelbrock’s fuel rails could be pretty handy for those going to a return style setup. Plenty of options in terms of plumbing (fittings at both ends like Whipple plus another two options down the sides of each rail).
Whipple’s rails seems to need all kinds of adaptors (potential leak sources) to make them work.

Edelbrock’s heat exchanger is roughly 2/3rds the depth of the oversized Whipple HE.
However, it sits further back, quite close to the radiator. The reality of the Whipple OS HE is that it sits so close to the crash bar that the portion behind the bar would be doing very little anyway.

I’ll detail some of the install as I go. Plenty have already documented it. I’ll really just focus on the bits I changed/improved (made worse?) along the way.
Cheers

Both great kits but we seem to sell a lot more Whipples here at @LethalPerformance. The proof is in the numbers! Feel free to shoot me a message if you have any questions about each kit. #TEAMLETHAL!

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