Edelbrock E-Force Troubleshooting Manual

[Torinate]

Yep the edelbrock one, supposed to be on its way, but ordered 3 weeks ago.

Already have the FRPP 90mm TB, DW78 injectors and JMS BAP. Lund have already done me a base tune too, should make good safe figures i hope when it all goes on

Perfect!

That’s the exact set up I’m shooting for! Can wait for your results!!!

Hoping to see 650+... that would be nice! What are you thinking?

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[SpArKy]

Perfect!

That’s the exact set up I’m shooting for! Can wait for your results!!!

Hoping to see 650+... that would be nice! What are you thinking?

really hard to tell. our UK cars have mangled headers so we're always a bit down on you. 650 would be great, and is the aim, but i realistically expect a little less as i want it to be a safe figure.

 

[Dun5]

Where did you pick up your BAP and injectors? I go with Lund also.

Summit Racing for the injectors and LMR for the BAP.

 

[Dun5]

What fuel? 93?

93 octane

 

[ugstang17]

I've been working through a tip in at light throttle stumble with my tuner and it looks like after jumping through hoops to prove that the car is mechanically and electrically sound and after duplicating the problem through multiple datalogs the issue has been resolved after 2 revisions on the tune. Some things to check in case you find yourself trying to get a tune issue resolved before simply jumping on the tuner.....

Before even ordering the tune make sure the tuner is happy with the parts selection you have chosen in your build. Tuners can be very picky about fuel injector brand and even certain models within a brand. So if possible have a fuel injector that the tuner approves of. make sure that they fully understand and have listed EVERY modification on the car that relates to engine and transmission performance. They don't care about items likewindow tint, lowering springs, or shocks. So keep it power train related and to the point but don't assume. If you are running a Roush 727 package make sure they know that including the pulley size and the BAP brand. Make sure they know the FI size. Don't assume they know based on the kit. Don't forget to tell them the mileage so they know if they are dealing with a fresh engine or one with 100,000 miles on it.

Find out what spark plug they prefer to be used AND the spark plug gap they want it set to. If they tell you .026 or .028 set the gap to that. Don't assume the gap is at that or leave the gap at .031 because Roush says to. The tuning is no longer Roush so that's out the door.

INSTALL OIL SEPARATORS FROM THE DAY YOU INSTALL THE FI KIT. This will only save you hassle if you have a tuning issue. When a tuner hears that there are no oil separators on the car and there is an issue that appears to be detonation they suspect oil buildup in the intake and on the intercooler. So to avoid having to tear this down to satisfy a tuner after the fact, put the separator kit on from day one. Trust me I learned this recently.

Make sure your Throttle body and MAF are properly cleaned before starting the tuning process.

Verify your battery voltage and charging voltage are good. Fuel injectors depend on good voltage to provide the correct amount of fuel when commanded to open.
When the voltage sags or rises above a default value the injector time will lengthen or shorten accordingly to correct for these changes from a voltage table in the tune. SO this is important not only for loading the tune but also to assure the tune goes well.

Make sure the CAI is installed correctly on the TB and seals correctly. Make sure you put the MAF sensor back in correctly after cleaning it and only clean with MAF cleaner. Never use TB cleaner on a MAF. Never drop the MAF sensor and assume it is okay.

Know your fuel filter is clean or at least let the tuner know how many miles are on the filter if they ask.

Make damn sure you have a fresh tank of fuel in the car. IF its 93 octane make sure it is good stuff. Double down by throwing a can of octane booster in the tank before the fill up. This only assures during the tuning process n the dyno for WOT pulls that any knock seen is not being caused by bad gas. HOWEVER don't have them tune for anything more than 93 octane. E-85 guys make sure you have tested the fuel and its good stuff. Octane booster isn't an issue if you are burning corn, but the specific gravity to determine is it good E85 is.

Make sure your bypass valve works smoothly and properly. These things can stick sometimes and cause problems. They can hang slightly at transition and cause some hesitation right at the transition of going into boost. So make sure they stroke smoothly and are not hanging up. ON my car the bypass valve begins to close at 4" Hg and makes a smooth movement to full closed at static (0).

Make sure your car is holding a proper vacuum level at idle. Mine idles in gear at 18" warmed up.

If you are retuning after buying a turnkey Whipple, Roush, Magneson, or Edelbrock setup you may need to pick up an IAT kit from VMP Performance PN: 15IATKIT as needed. The tuner will be able to tell you if you need this or not. ALL ROUSH RETUNES (15-17GT) WILL NEED THIS FOR AN AFTERMARKET RETUNE.

The steps above and things you should check for before even beginning the remote tuning process and let the tuner know before hand to minimize doubt int heir mind. Remember that they are not standing there with you so the more you can provide them the better the process will be.

Pull plugs and take pics if need be and provide to the tuner.

When datalogging notate the air temp and weather conditions for the tuner. If you are having an issue observe what the engine cylidner temp and trans temp (if auto) when the problem occurs. If the problem is not present at cold start but arises after reaching normal op temps let them know this. Give specific 411 in addition to the datalogs you provide.

Last a speed shop may need to intervene. In my case this is what it took to resolve it. Regardless of how well versed you may think you are, unless you do it for a living you aren't a pro. It may take the pros hashing it out for the tuner to accept his tune needs tweeking in spite of the fact that he markets it as a "CUSTOM TUNE". Tuners take pride in their work, as such they can get a little arrogant and protective of their work with remarks like, "This is the first time I have heard of this", or "I've tuned hundreds of setups just like this and never had a problem". A pro can talk to the tuner on his level and overcome this 99% of the time. So spending a little extra money may yield a much better return on the initial investment.

Remote tunes aren't plug and play. Some think that they are because there are some on line dealers who sell a tune package as a canned tune. In that case usually what you get is what you get. With a custom tuner who advertised REMOTE CUSTOM TUNING this will require effort on your part. IT's not as simple and loading the tune and driving off into the sunset.......especially on a forced induction car with an auto. Stick shift cars will be much less involved.

Hope this helps you out if you find yourself fighting a potential tune issue. Do you prep work ahead of time as it may apply. Then do the checks afterwards if you beginto have issues.

 

[Burkey]

I've been working through a tip in at light throttle stumble with my tuner and it looks like after jumping through hoops to prove that the car is mechanically and electrically sound and after duplicating the problem through multiple datalogs the issue has been resolved after 2 revisions on the tune. Some things to check in case you find yourself trying to get a tune issue resolved before simply jumping on the tuner.....

Before even ordering the tune make sure the tuner is happy with the parts selection you have chosen in your build. Tuners can be very picky about fuel injector brand and even certain models within a brand. So if possible have a fuel injector that the tuner approves of. make sure that they fully understand and have listed EVERY modification on the car that relates to engine and transmission performance. They don't care about items likewindow tint, lowering springs, or shocks. So keep it power train related and to the point but don't assume. If you are running a Roush 727 package make sure they know that including the pulley size and the BAP brand. Make sure they know the FI size. Don't assume they know based on the kit. Don't forget to tell them the mileage so they know if they are dealing with a fresh engine or one with 100,000 miles on it.

Find out what spark plug they prefer to be used AND the spark plug gap they want it set to. If they tell you .026 or .028 set the gap to that. Don't assume the gap is at that or leave the gap at .031 because Roush says to. The tuning is no longer Roush so that's out the door.

INSTALL OIL SEPARATORS FROM THE DAY YOU INSTALL THE FI KIT. This will only save you hassle if you have a tuning issue. When a tuner hears that there are no oil separators on the car and there is an issue that appears to be detonation they suspect oil buildup in the intake and on the intercooler. So to avoid having to tear this down to satisfy a tuner after the fact, put the separator kit on from day one. Trust me I learned this recently.

Make sure your Throttle body and MAF are properly cleaned before starting the tuning process.

Verify your battery voltage and charging voltage are good. Fuel injectors depend on good voltage to provide the correct amount of fuel when commanded to open.
When the voltage sags or rises above a default value the injector time will lengthen or shorten accordingly to correct for these changes from a voltage table in the tune. SO this is important not only for loading the tune but also to assure the tune goes well.

Make sure the CAI is installed correctly on the TB and seals correctly. Make sure you put the MAF sensor back in correctly after cleaning it and only clean with MAF cleaner. Never use TB cleaner on a MAF. Never drop the MAF sensor and assume it is okay.

Know your fuel filter is clean or at least let the tuner know how many miles are on the filter if they ask.

Make damn sure you have a fresh tank of fuel in the car. IF its 93 octane make sure it is good stuff. Double down by throwing a can of octane booster in the tank before the fill up. This only assures during the tuning process n the dyno for WOT pulls that any knock seen is not being caused by bad gas. HOWEVER don't have them tune for anything more than 93 octane. E-85 guys make sure you have tested the fuel and its good stuff. Octane booster isn't an issue if you are burning corn, but the specific gravity to determine is it good E85 is.

Make sure your bypass valve works smoothly and properly. These things can stick sometimes and cause problems. They can hang slightly at transition and cause some hesitation right at the transition of going into boost. So make sure they stroke smoothly and are not hanging up. ON my car the bypass valve begins to close at 4" Hg and makes a smooth movement to full closed at static (0).

Make sure your car is holding a proper vacuum level at idle. Mine idles in gear at 18" warmed up.

If you are retuning after buying a turnkey Whipple, Roush, Magneson, or Edelbrock setup you may need to pick up an IAT kit from VMP Performance PN: 15IATKIT as needed. The tuner will be able to tell you if you need this or not. ALL ROUSH RETUNES (15-17GT) WILL NEED THIS FOR AN AFTERMARKET RETUNE.

The steps above and things you should check for before even beginning the remote tuning process and let the tuner know before hand to minimize doubt int heir mind. Remember that they are not standing there with you so the more you can provide them the better the process will be.

Pull plugs and take pics if need be and provide to the tuner.

When datalogging notate the air temp and weather conditions for the tuner. If you are having an issue observe what the engine cylidner temp and trans temp (if auto) when the problem occurs. If the problem is not present at cold start but arises after reaching normal op temps let them know this. Give specific 411 in addition to the datalogs you provide.

Last a speed shop may need to intervene. In my case this is what it took to resolve it. Regardless of how well versed you may think you are, unless you do it for a living you aren't a pro. It may take the pros hashing it out for the tuner to accept his tune needs tweeking in spite of the fact that he markets it as a "CUSTOM TUNE". Tuners take pride in their work, as such they can get a little arrogant and protective of their work with remarks like, "This is the first time I have heard of this", or "I've tuned hundreds of setups just like this and never had a problem". A pro can talk to the tuner on his level and overcome this 99% of the time. So spending a little extra money may yield a much better return on the initial investment.

Remote tunes aren't plug and play. Some think that they are because there are some on line dealers who sell a tune package as a canned tune. In that case usually what you get is what you get. With a custom tuner who advertised REMOTE CUSTOM TUNING this will require effort on your part. IT's not as simple and loading the tune and driving off into the sunset.......especially on a forced induction car with an auto. Stick shift cars will be much less involved.

Hope this helps you out if you find yourself fighting a potential tune issue. Do you prep work ahead of time as it may apply. Then do the checks afterwards if you beginto have issues.

Do you know what was causing the stumble?

 

[ugstang17]

Do you know what was causing the stumble?

I do not. I know that two tune revisions were made which I received copies on. Sorry I can't be more specific, to speculate would not be fair to the speed shop or the tuner who have both been awesome in getting this issue resolved. I was given an opinion but it was not first hand and may be incorrect so I will not share that in fairness to the tuner who worked well with the speed shop to resolve the issue or in the invent the opinion could be misleading for someone trying to resolve a similar issue. All I can share is what we did to narrow the issue down to a tune correction being needed as I have. The shop and the tuner have done great work.

 

[kenbidwell]

Ok, might be a silly question but how is everyone measuring their boost pressure? I am using the built in gauge which I understand uses a calculation to determine boost pressure. I am able to build over 20psi according to the dash gauge, digital and analog. It pulls like a freight train but I am afraid if I am really building that amount of pressure I am going to hurt something. I have the 1586 kit which has the 2.3 TVS and 3 inch pully. Should build around 10 to 12 psi. I should be happy I guess but I don't want to hurt my internals.

 

[Jobodizo]

@kenbidwell I’m using a mechanical gauge plumbed to the port on the back of the blower. I usually see right around 10.5psi with the phase 1 kit.

 

[Dun5]

Ok, might be a silly question but how is everyone measuring their boost pressure? I am using the built in gauge which I understand uses a calculation to determine boost pressure. I am able to build over 20psi according to the dash gauge, digital and analog. It pulls like a freight train but I am afraid if I am really building that amount of pressure I am going to hurt something. I have the 1586 kit which has the 2.3 TVS and 3 inch pully. Should build around 10 to 12 psi. I should be happy I guess but I don't want to hurt my internals.

1/8 inch npt port on driver side. I did a hard gauge to get boost number on 3.5, 3.25 inch pullys. The one in the driver info vac/boost gauge is no accurate. I uninstalled after getting what I needed.

 

[ugstang17]

Ok, might be a silly question but how is everyone measuring their boost pressure? I am using the built in gauge which I understand uses a calculation to determine boost pressure. I am able to build over 20psi according to the dash gauge, digital and analog. It pulls like a freight train but I am afraid if I am really building that amount of pressure I am going to hurt something. I have the 1586 kit which has the 2.3 TVS and 3 inch pully. Should build around 10 to 12 psi. I should be happy I guess but I don't want to hurt my internals.

Mech Autometer vac/boost cobalt series. That is the most economical and reliable way to go in my humble opine. Several mounting methods available. I obtained an 1/8" npt brass 90 with an 1/8" tubing quick release fitting on it and used an 1/8" npt access port available on the Roush intake on the rear passenger corner of the intake. Surprisingly one of the GT350 Shelby guys used the autometer pillar mount and actually gave it good fitment reviews and that the texture and color was a close enough match to the stock pillar that it looked good in the car as well. They make a 1 and 2 pod unit. I have mine mounted in the center vent, but one of the members here makes one for a much better price that has a 20 deg tilt to it so its more viewable from the drivers seat. He's listed in the parts section where gauges and audio is sold.

 

[Braski]

I'm looking at starting the install next weekend but I read in the manual you need to flash back to the stock tune first. My car has a pp2 tune and I don't have the original file, does anyone know if that will be an issue? I have all the oem parts but I don't have the stock tune file.

 

[ugstang17]

I'm looking at starting the install next weekend but I read in the manual you need to flash back to the stock tune first. My car has a pp2 tune and I don't have the original file, does anyone know if that will be an issue? I have all the oem parts but I don't have the stock tune file.

That could be used as the factory tune as i understand it. I used the Roush tune as the factory tune on my past three cars when I retuned. But if you wish to stay safe and you have no need to ever rervert back to the PP2 kit revert back to factory and tear into it. Either way you won't be able to use the factory tune for ANYTHING once the kit is on the car......of course that is a redundant statement because I am sure you know that already.

 

[Kona 18]

I'm looking at starting the install next weekend but I read in the manual you need to flash back to the stock tune first. My car has a pp2 tune and I don't have the original file, does anyone know if that will be an issue? I have all the oem parts but I don't have the stock tune file.

If PBD is tuning it then there is no problem, HPT supports the PP strategy and other aftermarket ones. If you're using the included tune with the kits then they overwrite what ever you have on it now anyway and will save your current PP tune as the "stock" tune you can revert back too

 

[ugstang17]

If PBD is tuning it then there is no problem, HPT supports the PP strategy and other aftermarket ones. If you're using the included tune with the kits then they overwrite what ever you have on it now anyway and will save your current PP tune as the "stock" tune you can revert back too

SCT, or Ngage either will recognize the current tune as the factory tune in my experience both in this format of ECU (15-17) and the prior 11-14 ECU. 18+ may be a different story. Can't speak for them because I have not ventured into that realm...and never will. My next move will be a digression to a stick shift 13/14 GT500. That is my pinnacle goal in Mustang ownership if that ever happens.

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