Edelbrock E-Force Troubleshooting Manual

Discussion in 'Forced Induction - 5.0L V8 Engine' started by Jobodizo, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Jobodizo

    Jobodizo Well-Known Member

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    #1 Jobodizo, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    Let me start out by saying this post is in no way meant to bash on Edelbrock. Tony and Nick (tech support and @Edelbrock Tech) were incredibly supportive through troubleshooting my issues and Edelbrock reimbursed me for my rental after we figured everything out. I am also incredibly happy with the quality of the supercharger assembly, the fit/feel/finish of the kit, the ease of assembly, the intercooler temperatures, and most definitely the POWER now that I have it running.


    All that being said, I had just about every gremlin that I could have experienced mess with me post-install. Because there’s not a lot of technical information about E-Force in the forums aside from what @Kona 18 has posted, I thought I’d start this post to document issues and how they can be fixed. I have had 3 individuals separately contact me with similar issues after they found my “help me” posts to find out how I resolved everything, and I know I personally would have been less freaked out if I would’ve seen writeups while I was searching for fixes. Here goes:


    Issue 1: No reading or triple dots for IAT in the center display screen. May or may not be accompanied by a P0113 CEL.

    Likely Resolution: The harness that interfaces between the MAF sensor and the IAT runner relocation harness is probably bad. Tony told me they reverse-engineered the side that acts like the replacement MAF plug and there have been some issues with secure fitment. Try wiggling this connection to the IAT harness and see if you can get a reading. Also check for pins that have been pushed back out of the connector. If need be, Edelbrock will likely want to overnight you a replacement harness. Personally, I have no intention of ever removing the system so I just cut the plug off and soldered the extension harness into the engine harness (Tony’s recommendation).


    Issue 2: Wrench light and limp mode, likely accompanied by a P0223 CEL.

    Likely Resolution: Similar to issue 1, it is likely the extension harness from the factory throttle body harness to the throttle body has a bad connection. Again, the likely culprit is the reverse-engineered side that replicates the throttle body. If need be, Edelbrock will likely want to overnight you a replacement harness. I have not soldered in the extension yet (have about 2k miles now on the second one) but I plan on doing this one as well once I get out of the rainy season.


    Issue 3: Coolant puddle under the car when ambient is below freezing and the overflow tank seems to always want to level off at the “low” marking.

    Likely Resolution: The spring clamps that seal the two hoses to the overflow tank are borderline for compression with the amount of expansion/contraction that the blow-molded plastic sees in “4 season” climates. If you haven’t installed the system yet, use screw clamps instead. If you have, slide the spring clamps to the end of the nipples and add screw clamps.


    This one is the BIGGEST ISSUE I FACED. The worst part about it is that it APPEARS to be intermittent, but likely you are only seeing it if you’re trying to start the car in 45*F or below weather. This will also only be an issue for people on the Edelbrock tune. I spent DAYS on this one because Christmas in KY seesawed around the 45*F mark…

    Issue 4: The dash IAT reading is something like -73*F, you experience EXTREMELY hard starts with clouds of rich smoke, possibly also accompanied by a P0113 CEL. It generally only happens below ~45*F, and if you bring the car up to temp then restart the issue appears to go away. Best part: if you’re datalogging IAT with the provided SCT X4 the IATs are accurate.

    Likely Resolution: This has something to do with the interaction between the Edelbrock tune and the plastic IAT sensor. Something about the combination does not play nice. At one point @ugstang17 theorized that the resistance goes towards its max value at colder temps, and the ECU is seeing close to its full 5V output in the IAT loop therefore causing a problem. Roush and Whipple use the same sensor and I haven’t heard of them having a similar issue, but their kits wire it differently. Also, @Kona 18 has been running his kit about as long as me with a custom tune and hasn’t had a single issue with his kit…but he’s also in Texas. Read into this what you will, because I’m not an electrical guy. In the end, after multiple datalogs and involvement from both their tune and engineering departments, Edelbrock provided me with a brass IAT sensor and a tune update and the issue disappeared. Obviously Edelbrock is aware of these issues now, as I annoyed Tony and Nick relentlessly for the ~6 weeks my car was down working through all of this. I do not know if their new complete kits are shipping with the brass sensor or not. If you experience this issue, I’d call and ask for Tony and he should get you squared away.

    !!!VERY IMPORTANT!!!

    If you have to replace the plastic IAT sensor, be mindful of the fact that it comes pre-coated with thread locker. If you break it off, there is really no way to drill/tap it without removing the entire assembly to keep things from falling down the runners. Go very slowly and apply small amounts of force while supporting the end of the wrench so that you're not creating additional shear forces. I found that using small amounts of brake cleaner on the threads dissolves the locker without weakening the sensor. Small squirt, wipe off locker, small turn, repeat a billion times. Seriously, you do not want to remove the whole thing to tap a 3/8" hole on the back of the blower.


    Issue 5: Surging, off idle stumble, bad gas mileage, and no decel with pedal lift.

    Likely Resolution: Issue directly linked to the Edelbrock tune. So, I said I wasn’t bashing Edelbrock, but I have to mention this: Their tune department is unresponsive, stubborn, and short with their customers. This issue was completely tune related. I called their tune department to discuss, and I received essentially a “nobody else has complained” response. Now, I know people will read this and say “all manufacturers have really safe and slow tunes because of their warranties,” and for the most part I would agree. But…I test drove a ’15 Roush Stage 3 before I bought this kit. I was considering simply trading my car for the better residual value of the Roush vs. spending money on this kit. The Roush did not have any of these drivability issues, it was just less powerful than it could have been. I eventually had the car dyno tuned and my tuner (Lee Blankenship) told me that the torque tables were all messed up which was causing the vast majority of my drivability problems. Long and short, you’re probably better off buying the kit without the tune included. The possible exception to this would be their new modular inlet with the bazillion mm throttle body, which I understand is being tuned by Lund.


    Issue 6: Odd, jerky (almost hesitation but not quite) transition to boost.

    Likely Resolution: Edelbrock puts a small nitrogen capsule into the hose that actuates the boost bypass valve. It’s on the side of the hose closest to the valve. Thanks to @kona18 for pointing me to it. This one is a double-edged sword. Having the capsule there causes the bypass valve to close more slowly than it normally would, providing a gradual increase in boost. This makes the whole system give less of a jolt to your drivetrain and gives your tires a better fighting chance to hook up. It’s also probably required to keep the Edelbrock warranty. The downside of course is the transition into boost and how it feels. I eventually removed mine because it actually felt like there was something wrong with the car and I was constantly looking at my knock readout and fuel trims for problems…but I also don’t get a warranty because my car is too old. Take from this what you will.


    The end of my story: I went ahead and paid the $500 for a custom dyno tune and there are now no drivability issues. On a very conservative tune I’m making 583whp and 557wtq, I went from 16 to 21mpg average (same commute), and the car drives like stock until I mash the pedal. Dyno printout below with runs both from the Edelbrock tune and the custom tune. (Yes, I know, no slicks for me until I upgrade the clutch!)


    Sorry for the length of the post, but hopefully with it I can help somebody if they ever experience one or all of the issues I went through.

    dyno.jpg
     
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  2. CraigJ

    CraigJ Well-Known Member

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    Small world, i have just this morning sent a message to @Edelbrock Tech on here about the issue with hard cold starts as i have had this issue 4 times now in just over a week.

    When ever i switch the ignition on and there is no reading for IAT and oil temp the car will struggle to start and be followed by smoke. When it warm though no issue.
     
  3. OP
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    Jobodizo

    Jobodizo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you're having issues. Sounds like you're experiencing my issue 4. Out of curiosity, ambient temperature wise about when is it good vs. bad? Also, your post reminded me that I should have included one more tidbit of information: if they end up sending you the brass sensor kit, you will definitely want to know this (also added to post above):

    !!!VERY IMPORTANT!!!

    If you have to replace the plastic IAT sensor, be mindful of the fact that it comes pre-coated with thread locker. If you break it off, there is really no way to drill/tap it without removing the entire assembly to keep things from falling down the runners. Go very slowly and apply small amounts of force while supporting the end of the wrench so that you're not creating additional shear forces. I found that using small amounts of brake cleaner on the threads dissolves the locker without weakening the sensor. Small squirt, wipe off locker, small turn, repeat a billion times. Seriously, you do not want to remove the whole thing to tap a 3/8" hole on the back of the blower.
     
  4. CraigJ

    CraigJ Well-Known Member

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    It was 6 degrees here today when it did it. So about 43f
    Today was the only day that it did it and was reading some thing like -47 where as it is normally just dots like ---

    Checked the plugs and all pins are in place. Did notice that the original wiring has 4 wires but the Edelbrock wiring is only 3.
     
  5. OP
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    Jobodizo

    Jobodizo Well-Known Member

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    Yah, if you're getting a reading that switches between --- and the -47 type reading it's the whole IAT sensor/tune interaction thing. I would get them to send you the brass sensor and tune update. All the extension harness does is tap into the 5V supply and bypass the signal return for IAT. The jump section only has 3 wires because you're no longer taking a temperature reading at the MAF sensor, so they move the signal to the extension harness.
     
  6. Edelbrock Tech

    Edelbrock Tech Well-Known Member
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    Allow me to address the issues brought up by the OP. Please note that these issues are know to us and all new kits are shipped with updated components and calibration as a result.

    Issue 1: No reading or triple dots for IAT in the center display screen. May or may not be accompanied by a P0113 CEL.

    This is caused by a bad IAT sensor. We have updated all 2015+ kits to a new sensor and harness set that fixes this issue. If anyone has this issue, please contact our tech department at 800-416-8628. We will send out a replacement sensor, harness and updated calibration free of charge.

    Issue 2: Wrench light and limp mode, likely accompanied by a P0223 CEL.
    This can be caused by an issue with the Throttle Body Extension. There was some back and forth throttle body swapping that went on with this customer and a pin was likely damaged during this time. Regardless, we will replace this harness free of charge as part of our 3-year parts warranty.

    Issue 3: Coolant puddle under the car when ambient is below freezing and the overflow tank seems to always want to level off at the “low” marking.
    Part of the install procedure is checking for leaks after the system is filled. While worm clamps are a nice addition, the spring clamps are perfectly capable of clamping the hose to the tank without leaking.

    Issue 4: The dash IAT reading is something like -73*F, you experience EXTREMELY hard starts with clouds of rich smoke, possibly also accompanied by a P0113 CEL. It generally only happens below ~45*F, and if you bring the car up to temp then restart the issue appears to go away. Best part: if you’re datalogging IAT with the provided SCT X4 the IATs are accurate.
    Same resolution as Issue #1.

    Issue 5: Surging, bad gas mileage, and no decel with pedal lift.
    I can't agree with all of the OPs comments because there may be an aftermarket throttle body involved here which we do not support via our calibration.

    Issue 6: Odd, jerky (almost hesitation but not quite) transition to boost.
    The nitrous jet does slow the transition into boost, but it is a smooth transition. The jet is not required for warranty coverage and is easily removable if preferred.
     
  7. OP
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    Jobodizo

    Jobodizo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for responding. It's good to know Edelbrock is taking these issues seriously and is taking action. A couple of quick notes:

    I did check for leaks. This only happened when ambient temperature dropped significantly and the plastic of the bottle contracted. Not a big deal, just an observation for people looking leak sources should they occur.

    The surging issues to which I'm referring were with the STOCK 80mm throttle body following everything else that happened. I did in fact initially install the BBK 85mm. After I had (much worse) surging issues I asked Nick about it, he told me it wasn't supported, I put the stock unit back on and never went back. It is also possible that the single swap could have damaged the harness, but as I stated Edelbrock took care of me and overnighted a harness.
     
  8. JennyStang

    JennyStang Well-Known Member

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    Dam man sorry to here sounds like the issues everyone was having with livernois and the Magnuson blower . Once you got a real tune car was great to drive. Happy it got fixed with a real tuner. Seems like whipple cal is the only one that can get a blower to drive correctly with out a custom tune
     
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  9. ugstang17

    ugstang17 Well-Known Member

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    OP - Nice write up. looking forward to putting a log-in name with a face. :thumbsup::rockon:

    And it is very nice to see that Edelbrock is supporting their product.
     
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  10. Kona 18

    Kona 18 Well-Known Member

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    The thing with the sensor they address, all current kits will ship with the new brass sensor, this is the same set up most tuners request you change too when you do a aftermarket tune, so it will save $100 down the line when you get a 3rd party tune from PDB or Lund. That being said, I'm running the plastic IAT sensor on my 18 and it hasn't caused me any issues. We've had a few days this past winter were temps got down to about 28*f and now that it's summer(ambient was 95* today) everything is still working well


    I also took the nitrous pill off my car, its nice how it helps ease you into boost, but I took it off after a month to see how it felt with out and never put it back on
     
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  11. Dalton@Evolution

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    These superchargers are developed and tested in California. The issue involving the IAT Sensor and Harness is kind of unforeseeable as it does not really get cold in that area. It sounds like Edelbrock handled the matter professionally. I personally live in a region that sees all four seasons, and I also happen to have an Edelbrock 2650 on my S550 Mustang. I also had the issue with the IAT Sensor. OP is the first recorded (to my knowledge) customer to have this issue. Edelbrock has taken this into consideration, and since has updated every kit that is built and is fitting them with the new sensor. I want to clear this one piece up about a "real" tune. Edelbrock is a company that offers a 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty with their own kit AND calibration. Just to be proper, my next comment is in no way shape or form negative about the shop Livernois, They do not develop tune, and manufacture their OWN superchargers, They are a distributer for the unit, and they would be considered under what you call a "real" tune because they (just like Blankenship and even my shop) specialize in tuning and installing aftermarket superchargers (brands like Roush Whipple Edelbrock Procharger). The tune that is sent out by Edelbrock is 50 State Legal, and again has a WARRANTY. Not to mention that their tunes are tested on California 91 Octane which is complete garbage. I'm very happy OP has solved his issues and he is one of the few owners that can say "hey I fixed that" which I think is pretty cool!
     
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  12. jfccac

    jfccac Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad I found this thread. I just (yesterday) ordered a 2300 unit. I hope to receive it the week after next and will self install sometime in May. I've been waiting for the right opportunity to pick up a blower and my patience paid off.

    Like many of you, I've been scouring the interweb to find anything I could about this kit. Information is very difficult to uncover.

    I have a hunch this latest push to get rid of the 2300 series units will result in a new group of e'brock FI supporters.

    OP...thanks for starting this thread. It was long overdue
     
  13. Kona 18

    Kona 18 Well-Known Member

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    THat's good, the more people have them, the more they mod them, the more the aftermarket grows to support them.
     
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  14. OP
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    Jobodizo

    Jobodizo Well-Known Member

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    I think they're going to start taking off. All of the "what sc should I use" posts on the forum now narrow PD blowers down to Whipple or Edelbrock. I'm not familiar with the newer Roush setups, but apparently the new intercoolers and inlets aren't up to the challenge. Unless VMP releases something groundbreaking it looks like Edelbrock is the best TVS game in town. :rockon:
     
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  15. kenbidwell

    kenbidwell Well-Known Member

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    I Ordered mine on Monday, hope to get it soon and start the install.

    Ken
     
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  16. zrwhat

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    Thank you for posting, I have one of the first couple 2650's that were sent out and it has been on the car since July 2017. It was installed on my completely stock 2017 with the Edelbrock 50 state tune and ran and drove like stock for about 3 months and then we put an aftermarket tune on. Just the tune everything else still being the stock Stage 1 kit we picked up 34rwhp SAE. The car has been awesome on the street minus the fact that traction is non existent until somewhere in 3rd gear with stock tires.

    I've had two small issues, the first being the intercooler pump not shutting off when the car is turned off. It is difficult to hear that it is still running and had caused some heartache when the wife got stranded a few times with a dead battery. Edelbrock quickly shipped a replacement harness which we installed but it still from time to time stays running. A quick cycle of the start button and that usually shuts it off. The car is not a daily driver and the wife rarely drives it anymore but does now know what to listen for.

    The second issue is the cold start that seems common, thought it was just my car:) I too live in a 4 season climate here in Indiana and once the temps drop the car cranks and crank and eventually stumbles to life with a huge cloud of rich smoke which throws a CEL. Once warm it starts perfect, I have lived with it just assuming it was a tune issue and I rarely drive it when it's under 50. Looks like I need the new IAT.
     
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  17. CraigJ

    CraigJ Well-Known Member

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    Well Edelbrock are shipping the newer type sensor and harness to the uk for my car.

    Can’t really fault them. Good customer aftercare.
     
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  18. Kona 18

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    on my 18 the I intercooler pump is triggered by the OE EVAP harness, so mine stays on after shutting the car off or if I open the driver door. This is bc the ECM energizes the EVAP solenoid in these situations to vent fumes and this in turn fires up the intercooler pump. It's a nice feature which helps keep coolant moving while the car is off but if you want to prevent it from happening you can trigger the relay off a switched 12v source instead, then the pump will only run when the engine is running.
     
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  19. dragonszar

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    I got one of their clearance 2.3 stage 1 kits about a month ago, been running it for 2-3 weeks now. Live in Florida, so I can't complain about the cold weather issues. My intercooler pump also runs after shutting off the car and until door is opened, so i think that's normal like Kona 18 said, the harness is tapped into the EVAP sensor. I have no problems going into boost, and going through the power band. But I have a pretty moderate-big jerking problem in stop and go traffic or in the parking lot. Car responds really negatively when push on gas pedal - let go- then go back on. I also have a problem where if im just cruising at 45-50MPH fifth gear. around 1900 rpms. Car feels like it's hesitating, makes me and passenger feel like the car is going over tiny bumps in the road. I have also experienced problem #5 where I take off in first let off gas pedal, but car still accelerating a little. My car is 2017 Manual Base, Only mod other than the edelbrock kit is, MBRP street catback.

    jfccac let us know if you encounter any of the problems after install.

    I have been emailing Tony at edelbrock to try to solve this issues. But they are very slow to repsond. And have not "offered" any solutions yet.
     
  20. OP
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    Jobodizo

    Jobodizo Well-Known Member

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    @dragonszar i should’ve mentioned the throttle transition I completely forgot about that. I had it as well, it’s in their tune file. I’ll add that to the original post for issue 5.

    Also, anybody subscribe to Modded Mustangs and Fast Fords? The 2650 Edelbrock TVS was on the cover!
     
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