Doesn't feel like 460hp...?

[nastang87xx]

If these are coming in around 490 crank, I’d be really upset if I was these guys making low 400’s at the wheel... I must be one of those guys with really bad drive train loss then, 465whp with e85 and full bolt ons. I must not have one of those 490 stock crank power engines.

No one does. Because wheel dyno numbers are high, people think they're overrated. Well transmission technology both in manuals and autos is becoming very very good at minimizing drivetrain losses. So yes, low 400's to the wheels has become routine. BMW on the other hand does indeed have an unusual interpretation of "horsepower."

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[NoVaGT]

And none addressed the engine dyno, only regular dynos.

Stangmode and AmericanMuscle.com were the YTers that started the "It's 500HP" stuff, getting north of 430HP at the wheels. Then others like LMR and CJ Pony Parts came out with much lower numbers, around 385HP at the wheels.

Plus, folks were figuring stupid-high percentages of drive-line loss, and figuring that into their calculations.

Dynos are simply not that accurate from one to another, they vary widely in their numbers/readings.

If someone would put it on an actual engine dyno, that would be great.

 

[Big Boss]

The amount of rubber isolation in the suspension and rear subframe, plus damper tuning really dulls the sensation of speed in these cars. It's so refined that it doesn't feel that eventful. As many of us have found, a handful of suspension/chassis mods makes the car feel WAY more alive, even without a tune. There's also the torque management in the first few gears, too, but most of it is the chassis tuning.

This ^

I remember that my 04 GT felt so much faster than 07, the time slips disagreed a lot with my 07 being a half second faster lol

 

[Schwerin]

Stangmode and AmericanMuscle.com were the YTers that started the "It's 500HP" stuff, getting north of 430HP at the wheels. Then others like LMR and CJ Pony Parts came out with much lower numbers, around 385HP at the wheels.

Plus, folks were figuring stupid-high percentages of drive-line loss, and figuring that into their calculations.

Dynos are simply not that accurate from one to another, they vary widely in their numbers/readings.

If someone would put it on an actual engine dyno, that would be great.

I don't think I've seen any dynos saying over 430 stock. Most are in the 420's, unless its a Mustang dyno. LMR made 415WHP with a 10spd auto. CJ made 420 SAE correction and 431 STD correction on the dot with Bill's manual. So no idea where you are getting 385 from. AM.com never says their correction that I can find so it may be they made 437 STD, which is just 6 away from CJP. When they did their test dyno working with VMP they made 421 on one run and 422 on another.

Now standard assumed drive loss used to be around 15%, which would mean that crank is about 495, which is close to the Engine dyno video. As modern fluids and transmissions are better designed than the 80's and 90's, that loss is probably down to about 12%. So assuming 12% loss that's really pushing about 478 crank to get the same 420whp. Now I can't find the video of the engine dyno at the moment as I'm at work, but if I remember that it had really no exhaust after the headers/cats, so assuming that there is some added power bump from that, and that modern transmissions are more efficient you can probably assume that the better flowing exhaust is why a 478 crank engine made a 497 output. So its very logical to believe the engine makes 495-500 out of the car, and once fully bolted in with exhaust it's making closer to 475-480.

 

[NoVaGT]

I don't think I've seen any dynos saying over 430 stock

Stangmode and American muscle. Check them out. LMR and another got around 385 at the wheels.

Now standard assumed drive loss used to be around 15%, which would mean that crank is about 495 which is close to the Engine dyno video. As modern fluids and transmissions are better designed than the 80's and 90's, that loss is probably down to about 12%. So assuming 12% loss that's really pushing about 478 crank to get the same 420whp.....

The modern idea on drivetrain loss is 8%-10%. Especially that 1080R trans.

And if you can find an engine dyno run, it's still useless without the stock exhaust system.

 

[Meatball]

Stangmode and AmericanMuscle.com were the YTers that started the "It's 500HP" stuff, getting north of 430HP at the wheels. Then others like LMR and CJ Pony Parts came out with much lower numbers, around 385HP at the wheels.

Plus, folks were figuring stupid-high percentages of drive-line loss, and figuring that into their calculations.

Dynos are simply not that accurate from one to another, they vary widely in their numbers/readings.

If someone would put it on an actual engine dyno, that would be great.

If you consider power-to-weight the primary factor holding driver/tranny/track conditions constant, and use standardized procedures and corrections like C&D and MT, you’ll get a pretty good idea, relatively, from trap speed. For example, MT dragged an 18 GT and 18 SS, both 6Ms. All driver, environmental, etc factors fall away because they’re the same for both cars. They came out nearly exactly the same trap speed (115.2mph for the SS, 115.1 for the GT). Considering the curb weights of both of these particular cars, and if you accept that the SS actually has 455hp at the crank, the GT has about 465-470. That holds up elsewhere too.

I think the point is, and as has been mentioned before, the advertised power is correct but it’s on the low end of the range of error (~1%). Most 18-19s will truthfully put out 460-470.

 

[Schwerin]

Stangmode and American muscle. Check them out.

Stangmod's says 425whp, so its made 4 more than CJP lol. If youre looking at his dynosheet it flat out says STD, CJP also made 431 STD, 421 SAE corrected.

You DO know that SAE and STD are not the same right?

 

[NoVaGT]

....the advertised power is correct but it’s on the low end of the range of error (~1%). Most 18-19s will truthfully put out 460-470.

What's been bantered about here is they're really 500HP engines. I'd think the 460-470 is correct.

 

[Schwerin]

Stangmode and American muscle. Check them out. LMR and another got around 385 at the wheels.



The modern idea on drivetrain loss is 8%-10%. Especially that 1080R trans.

And if you can find an engine dyno run, it's still useless without the stock exhaust system.

Well so far not a single number you've mentioned this whole thread is accurate, and those videos are easily watchable, why should I expect your 8-10% is correct?

 

[Schwerin]

The modern idea on drivetrain loss is 8%-10%. Especially that 1080R trans.

Based on that statement the Auto should dyno higher than the manual, and they don't. I can't find a single case of it.

 

[NoVaGT]

Well so far not a single number you've mentioned this whole thread is accurate, and those videos are easily watchable, why should I expect your 8-10% is correct?

When did anyone anoint you as the arbiter of numbers being accurate or not? And what does videos being watchable or not have to do with......anything being discussed?

Have you engine dyno'd a GEN3 coyote engine complete with the stock exhaust and ECU?

 

[NoVaGT]

Based on that statement the Auto should dyno higher than the manual, and they don't. I can't find a single case of it.

Find a single case of a 1080R and MT82 being tested back-to-back on the same dyno, on the same day.

And also explain how they ended up in exactly the same mechanical gearing.

 

[NoVaGT]

Oddly enough, we're here in a thread where almost every poster is agreeing that their Mustang feels slower than it's rated power. And yet it's being argued that the engines are actually underrated in HP & TQ.

 

[Meatball]

Not to get back on topic, but...this is an awesome thread. I TOTALLY feel this way. I love my car but sometimes it just doesn’t FEEL as fast as it is due to the smooth torque curve. Just saying...I drove a stock Fiesta ST the other week. It’s probably 2.5 seconds slower than my 17 GT FPPP3 to 60, but when the boost pressure is on the rise it fees way faster than it really is. It’s that lunge that we don’t get. This is why the FRS/BRZ feels slow and the Fiesta fast even though they’re about even in a drag race.

But I’ll take the Coyote-given neck-straining pull at high rpm over that any day.

 

[Schwerin]

When did anyone anoint you as the arbiter of numbers being accurate or not? And what does videos being watchable or not have to do with......anything being discussed?

Have you engine dyno'd a GEN3 coyote engine complete with the stock exhaust and ECU?

Because not a single number you have spouted as an example to back you up has been correct. LMR numbers, wrong. CJP numbers, wrong. Stangmode numbers, wrong. AM numbers, wrong.

In fact they ALL did in the 421-425 WHP SAE range, and the 431-436 STD range. The only one to do under 420 was LMR with 415. Other auto dynos I've seen are also about 412-418 range. StangModes are a bit bumped, but not by a lot. Other Manuals are in the 420-425 range. The only reason you're gonna see 385 is due to running in a lower gear on autos to not hit the speed limiter on the dyno.

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