Do we actually "need" an oil cooler??

[Gloucesternige]

This unit is in my opinion 'incorrectly named'. Its a Water to Oil Heat Exchanger wherebye the water heats the Oil. The Water will always be hotter than the oil if you think about it and its sole purpose is to raise the Oil Temp as fast as possible to reduce the wear on the engine during Cold Start-ups.
It will never work as an Oil Cooler!

Exactly right on your first sentence.
Oil temps can far exceed coolant temps under hard driving, indeed there is a video on YouTube where the oil reached nearly 150 degrees Celsius on Track due to a blocked oil cooler. Water temps will rarely rise above 88-90 degrees Celsius.
So, with the heat exchanger in use the 90 degree coolant could actually cool the oil. I’m not sure how efficient the stock system is on track, but it’s worth noting the GT 350/500 don’t have the heat exchanger.
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[ice445]

I agree with blocking it off/removing it on a RHD car, but as far as I know, oil temperature is actually an "inferred" value based on coolant temperature (which itself is inferred from a cylinder head temperature sensor). It's complex maths and it's reasonably accurate, but that accuracy goes out the window when the stock cooler is removed from the equation.

 

[Gloucesternige]

I agree with blocking it off/removing it on a RHD car, but as far as I know, oil temperature is actually an "inferred" value based on coolant temperature (which itself is inferred from a cylinder head temperature sensor). It's complex maths and it's reasonably accurate, but that accuracy goes out the window when the stock cooler is removed from the equation.

Interesting.. and not at all surprising in this modern age. Stupid old man here was thinking there would be an oil temperatures sensor in the system. Bit like the Range Rover I heard wouldn’t run because the level sensor was broken. The owner asked, “What was wrong with a dipstick”?
Perhaps someone can add here that they have seen their oil temps rise independent of coolant temperature?

Edit.. you are correct sir. Apparently the oil temp is a calculated figure, derived from coolant temperature, load, speed and time.

Looking at the design of the cooler,(heat exchanger) with water running through it at around 90 degrees it wont do much good at cooling oil at around 90 degrees, which is apparently well in the "normal" oil temp designed for this engine.

thanks for posting this.. The Mishimoto blanking plat i have ordered has a tapping in it, so i think I'll fit an oil temp gauge temporarily and post the figures here..

 

[raptor17GT]

snip...

thanks for posting this.. The Mishimoto blanking plat i have ordered has a tapping in it, so i think I'll fit an oil temp gauge temporarily and post the figures here..

be good to see what oil temps you get

 

[Gloucesternige]

be good to see what oil temps you get

Just ordered a VERY high spec temp gauge from Amazon for the princely sum of £14!! Good enough to be cable tied somewhere with a temporarily connected supply from somewhere or other?
I figure I can "calibrate" it with a boiling kettle?

 

[raptor17GT]

I agree with blocking it off/removing it on a RHD car, but as far as I know, oil temperature is actually an "inferred" value based on coolant temperature (which itself is inferred from a cylinder head temperature sensor). It's complex maths and it's reasonably accurate, but that accuracy goes out the window when the stock cooler is removed from the equation.

why does removing the stock cooler affect the calculation?

 

[Gloucesternige]

why does removing the stock cooler affect the calculation?

One would assume that if the stock cooler is doing anything in the way of cooling at normal driving conditions/coolant temp then the calibration will be based on that? For example, it could be the case that the cooler is holding the oil temp at 90-100 degrees under normal conditions, so the calculation will be based on that fact and our oil temp gauges are lying to us?
Personally, with oil and coolant temps being pretty equal, I believe the cooler is, as I said in my video last week, a heater to get the oil temp up quicker?

 

[raptor17GT]

what is our oil capacity? 7.6 litres and the filter is 0.5L? How much do we think the cooler holds of the remaining 7.1L ? I'd wager the sump produces more cooling effect that the cooler itself From all accounts the diff will overheat before the engine and that'll throw a fault code / light so we'll know to back off a little.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

Thanks for your reply Sir. I have always thought it a little strange when you look at the size of the coolers in the off the shelf kits for our cars.. they're huge!!

I guess ten laps of a circuit would show a different outcome, but for most of us...

The peace of mind knowing I am not going get coolant and oil mixing anywhere now is worth the work required.

what is the probability of the oil cooler

(absolute preferred)
I agree with blocking it off/removing it on a RHD car, but as far as I know, oil temperature is actually an "inferred" value based on coolant temperature (which itself is inferred from a cylinder head temperature sensor). It's complex maths and it's reasonably accurate, but that accuracy goes out the window when the stock cooler is removed from the equation.

I have asked the question in another thread "Is the oil pressure a direct reading or is it arrived at through an algorithm?"

And here Ice445 states that oil temperature is based on an algorithm (complex math). Ice445 also correctly states that any change to the factory system will make the readout worthless because now the "math" is all wrong.

My question now is, can anyone state with certainty (absolute preferred) that the oil temperature and oil pressure are direct readings or algorithms?

Should one or both be based on an algorithm then any changes to the physical system will cause the reading to be more incorrect at a given set of conditions. I would suspect that pressure is a direct reading and suspect that temperature could be algorithm based. My reasoning is that with severe reduction or loss of oil pressure we all know what to do because pressure is critical. Temperature is linked with several other parameters and used for many other controls in the system so it may be managed by an algorithm to make communication easier within the system(s).

I am sure that there are those who know better than I and hope that they chime in. As you can see my knowledge of the systems on this car are limited, but enough to allow me to have many questions.

 

[Supersolo]

in built gauge does a good job of displaying it. No worse than any other display in the car.

What does " in built " mean?

I haven't found an oil temp display option in my car, although I would very much like one.
How can oil temp be read??

 

[raptor17GT]

Was does " in built " mean?

I haven't found an oil temp display option in my car, although I would very much like one.
How can oil temp be read??

on my17 GT i get this using Gauge mode - then select oil temperature and > click and there's the display. From the owners manual. There are a few display gauges in there

 

[Gloucesternige]

what is the probability of the oil cooler


I have asked the question in another thread "Is the oil pressure a direct reading or is it arrived at through an algorithm?"

And here Ice445 states that oil temperature is based on an algorithm (complex math). Ice445 also correctly states that any change to the factory system will make the readout worthless because now the "math" is all wrong.

My question now is, can anyone state with certainty (absolute preferred) that the oil temperature and oil pressure are direct readings or algorithms?

Should one or both be based on an algorithm then any changes to the physical system will cause the reading to be more incorrect at a given set of conditions. I would suspect that pressure is a direct reading and suspect that temperature could be algorithm based. My reasoning is that with severe reduction or loss of oil pressure we all know what to do because pressure is critical. Temperature is linked with several other parameters and used for many other controls in the system so it may be managed by an algorithm to make communication easier within the system(s).

I am sure that there are those who know better than I and hope that they chime in. As you can see my knowledge of the systems on this car are limited, but enough to allow me to have many questions.

Exactly, if the temperature is displayed via an algorithm then any change will mess that that up, as I said above. So, I have ordered a cheap temperature gauge to see what is really going on in suburban/ town and Motorway driving. TBH I don’t think the cooler was doing a lot?
As for pressure, I really hope they are not using Algorithms for this.. I can’t see how they could, but I’ll bet it’s just an oil pressure switch that’ll be set to like 5psi so when it’s “low” it’s nearly too late. Everything above that is “Normal”.
I don’t get modern cars and their “sophisticated” electronics? All seems pretty backwards to me. I mean, what could be simpler than a temperature gauge that uses a positive feed and a potentiometer like sensor that gives the negative feed??
All seems a little over complicated to me? But I’m old and ugly, so what do I know??

 

[raptor17GT]

depends where the cylinder head temperature is taken to then infer the coolant to then infer the oil temperature. Only way to know the difference before and after removal of the cooler / engine breaker is to have measurements before and then compare with exact same driving after the modification. It would appear Nige, that we are both ruled out of that testing of beforehand.

Most cars do not have oil temperature displays nor any reading of it and few have oil pressure gauges other than the pressure light which is more of it's busted kinda warning. Sure they can be added but it's just something else to worry about / focus on rather than driving it. That and finding something nice to suit and also finding somewhere to fit it. In the centre speaker space would be good.

 

[Supersolo]

on my17 GT i get this using Gauge mode - then select oil temperature and > click and there's the display. From the owners manual. There are a few display gauges in there

Many thanks for that. I have a 19MY, but I will certainly look into that.
Cheers.

 

[ice445]

Exactly, if the temperature is displayed via an algorithm then any change will mess that that up, as I said above. So, I have ordered a cheap temperature gauge to see what is really going on in suburban/ town and Motorway driving. TBH I don’t think the cooler was doing a lot?
As for pressure, I really hope they are not using Algorithms for this.. I can’t see how they could, but I’ll bet it’s just an oil pressure switch that’ll be set to like 5psi so when it’s “low” it’s nearly too late. Everything above that is “Normal”.
I don’t get modern cars and their “sophisticated” electronics? All seems pretty backwards to me. I mean, what could be simpler than a temperature gauge that uses a positive feed and a potentiometer like sensor that gives the negative feed??
All seems a little over complicated to me? But I’m old and ugly, so what do I know??

I would be curious to see the results of installing an actual gauge. I would agree that the cooler isn't doing a ton, but sharing some of the heat load with the cooling system definitely has value up to a point, even though arguably the purpose is more to help the car warm up faster for emissions reasons. In an outright track application it starts to become a disadvantage when the cooling system is completely maxed out, which is why the 350 and 500 don't use one (plus they already have gas guzzler taxes anyway so who cares lol).

As far as pressure, idk if the car knows the actual numerical value, but there is for sure an oil pressure switch to let the ECU know if it's dropped below a specific limit. There's also an electronic oil pressure bypass solenoid that kicks on at lower engine speeds to lower the pressure which increases engine efficiency a little (another emissions trick that IMO is stupid). That might be a Gen 3 only thing though, I haven't looked into it too far.

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