Do we actually "need" an oil cooler??

[Gloucesternige]

Aha, that's good to know about the temp sensor plug, I'll need to get something sorted out to have a gauge in mine and confirm the results.

Does that temperature gauge alter all when the car is up to temperature? I wonder what folks are seeing temperature wise with the air coolers, obv that inferred display in the dash is completely out with the interwarmer removed!

Awesome details re the location kit I'll save that info. Time to speak to my car guy as I don't work on the car myself - no skilz.

Hi Buddy.
sorry I missed this question.. until now.
Basically, following a 10 minute warm up from cold, while checking for leaks, after just a couple of miles it was up to 120 degrees. As soon as I opened her up on the motorway at 80 mph the temp rose to the indicated 140 degrees. It didn’t go any higher and didn’t drop once I stopped at idle, which was while I made that video. Keep yours open for an update. I am going to do another test which may confirm or destroy my previous findings.
Some good news…. Magnatec is able to withstand temps over 150 degrees according to their website?

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[WD Pro]

Just watched your video …

To be honest it doesn’t surprise me, but I had no evidence to offer anything either way so I kept shut.

My first real car was a Cosworth and they had a similar type of cooler (I think it was referred to as a modine ?). I remember reading an article by one of the best Cosworth tuners at the time and they commented it was surprisingly effective for general usage and only recommended swapping it out to a traditional cooler if you were going reasonably extreme with either tuning or track work.

If your shopping for a cooler, I ‘really’ like the kit that Harrop Performance offer - it’s worth checking out

WD

 

[RR550]

I have been following this thread and video, thanks to Nige for his efforts,very revealing. It seems like the inbuilt "guages" are pure fiction! We really have no idea what the oil temp is as when the external guage was connected,the inbuilt one was reading the same as before the cooler was removed. What I would like to know is what temp the oil is running at with the standard cooler,I don't think anybody knows. A reliable guage needs to be connected to show. As I understand,the first gen Coyote did not have a cooler,it maybe that the oil runs at a lot higher temp than we think,no good taking any notice of what the car says. I had fast Fords back in the day,none of these had coolers,my brother builds Mini race engines ,no coolers on them either. If we go to the effort of getting an aftermarket cooler fitted,how do we know that is cooling the oil,can't take any notice of what the car says. Sorry for long post,concerned about the risk of a ruptured cooler and what to do.

 

[Gloucesternige]

I have made another video guys, that I believe proves the oil is cooking in your engine if you have no cooler installed. Jump to the end for the conclusion if you like.. then debate below...

 

[Gloucesternige]

I have been following this thread and video, thanks to Nige for his efforts,very revealing. It seems like the inbuilt "guages" are pure fiction! We really have no idea what the oil temp is as when the external guage was connected,the inbuilt one was reading the same as before the cooler was removed. What I would like to know is what temp the oil is running at with the standard cooler,I don't think anybody knows. A reliable guage needs to be connected to show. As I understand,the first gen Coyote did not have a cooler,it maybe that the oil runs at a lot higher temp than we think,no good taking any notice of what the car says. I had fast Fords back in the day,none of these had coolers,my brother builds Mini race engines ,no coolers on them either. If we go to the effort of getting an aftermarket cooler fitted,how do we know that is cooling the oil,can't take any notice of what the car says. Sorry for long post,concerned about the risk of a ruptured cooler and what to do.

I thought I responded to this message earlier??

Anyway, I have mentioned your comment in my new video. I agree.. the Gen1 did not have a cooler, in fact FP make an aftermarket cooler kit for the Boss that looks very much like the LHD cooler in an S550?

Many cars don't have oil coolers, I guess they don't need them or the manufacturers specify high quality oil so they can save fitting a cooler? I mention all this in the video.

I am going to fit a non thermostat cooler of an as yet undecided size and rest assured that I don't have the ruptured cooler issue coming my way and that the oil is being cooled according to my benchmark Chinese gauge,(for testing only)

 

[Silver Dragon]

Another interesting video thanks Nige.
Think your latest infra red thermometer will give approximate readings only rather than actual oil temp for the reasons you gave in your “beer can “ example.

The in car engine info does give you cylinder head temp which might be worth using in your calculations.I think it is fairly accurate as I saw mine climbing up stuck in a Dartford Crossong tragic jam last summer!

 

[WD Pro]

Hey thanks for the mention on your video

Just few more things to consider :

The infrared guns increase their measurement spot size as distance increases, so shooting from as far back as you did and expecting maximum accuracy can be tricky. as an example, here’s the info on the top of my fluke :

I don’t think they like breezes or chilled / hot air getting inside the bore that shrouds the lens - I’m sure I read something about that if using them up close to check aircon vents etc. Maybe that phenomenon messed up your beer can test ?

Ref take off plates - I would still be interested to know what the RHD Mach 1’s are using, maybe there’s going to be an off the shelf Ford branded option ?

I do wonder if a Harrop style cooler and pipe work coupled with a RHD M1 take off plate would make for a reasonably simple DIY at home on jack stands kind of install, without having to strip all the front bumper off etc.

The Harrop position also leaves maximum room in front of the rad for future mods - I don’t know, maybe an intercooler …

WD

 

[Gloucesternige]

Another interesting video thanks Nige.
Think your latest infra red thermometer will give approximate readings only rather than actual oil temp for the reasons you gave in your “beer can “ example.

The in car engine info does give you cylinder head temp which might be worth using in your calculations.I think it is fairly accurate as I saw mine climbing up stuck in a Dartford Crossong tragic jam last summer!

Thanks for watching.
Trouble is with the head temp, is it an actual reading or is it a stupid made up calculated load of trash like the oil temp??
I was thinking, one sure solid way to get oil temp is to drive car to max temp, then drain oil and measure the stream as it runs out the sump??

 

[raptor17GT]

sorry, been offine last few days hence late replying. Ok, that second video Nige is a bit strange as tbh heatsoak tends to do the opposite and er as it's name suggests is heat everything up. Having measured intake temperatures on a turbo car with a thermocouple I know for a fact that the air temp sky rockets once you shut down the engine as there is no air flowing. It also does the same though at a slower rate while sitting in traffic but at least you can blip the throttle for it to pul in fresh colder air.

So that being said, I find it kinda odd that the oil temperature drops so quickly after engine shutdown as while liquids can absorb more energy per litre than air can, they also shed heat more slowly for the same reason. The engine block / heads should in theory continue cooking the engine a bit longer before it starts cooling down as all the heat from the combustion area of the block will continue to heat up the now standing water in the coolant passages. That oil cooler location would have the same process applied to it and thus I'd expect the temps to not drop but rise slightly before coming back down slowly. The engine block wont be sitting at 100degC or above so oil at 120 or 140degC is in fact going to shed heat to the block but since the air surrounding the cooler replacement isn't moving much is wont that much cooling effect?

I could be talking utter rollicks of course and for that i apologise but going from past experience, shutting an engine down after a run does not make it cool down that quick. All things are relative of course and I'm here to learn.

What does the 18+ cars have in place of out failure prone unit?

 

[WD Pro]

What does the 18+ cars have in place of out failure prone unit?

Something similar, maybe the same ?

Maybe just of improved quality, but yet to be determined ?

Unsure if the risk is lessened, or if the scaremongering is just as high riding on the back of the pre facelift experiences etc.

In conclusion, a very unclear picture …

WD

 

[Gloucesternige]

Something similar, maybe the same ?

Maybe just of improved quality, but yet to be determined ?

Unsure if the risk is lessened, or if the scaremongering is just as high riding on the back of the pre facelift experiences etc.

In conclusion, a very unclear picture …

WD

from what I saw on a video from MAP, they had a failure on a 2018+ where coolant/ oil mixed in the cooling system and engine. So I assume Ford left it the same? Not sure what the Mach 1 has? I do know the 18+ models have a crazy solenoid near the filter which allows the oil pressure to drop at idle to reduce engine load and improve emissions. Lots of manufacturers are going this way now. In my book, controlling oil pressure with a plastic electronically controlled solenoid is sheer craziness, but I am quite old..

I will soon be doing a product review on a remote filter kit from MMR which will get rid of all the RHD mods and replace the filter mount casting with a plate which has 2 off -10 fittings in it.
It also utilises a K&N filter element which is gonna be free flowing and good at collecting debris.

 

[raptor17GT]

i really need to get a gauge onto mine, m16 x 1.5 thread on that plate yeah Nige ? Kinda stuck with it being on the car already as er oil will leak out.

@WD Pro - your thoughts were as I expected, maybe 2021 mach 1 will take some videos / pictures of his MACH 1 so we can see what they have

 

[Gloucesternige]

i really need to get a gauge onto mine, m16 x 1.5 thread on that plate yeah Nige ? Kinda stuck with it being on the car already as er oil will leak out.

@WD Pro - your thoughts were as I expected, maybe 2021 mach 1 will take some videos / pictures of his MACH 1 so we can see what they have

yes, I believe it is M16 x1.5.

 

[Tinpot]

Mach 1 has the air/oil cooler lifted from the GT350

 

[WD Pro]

Mach 1 has the air/oil cooler lifted from the GT350

Yeah that’s why I would like to see how they do the take off on a RHD.

Mentioned further up this thread - my ideal scenario would be the OE Ford RHD M1 take off and the Harrop cooler

WD

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