Confused about Flex Fuel Tune

[NGOT8R]

When I tuned and dyno’d my car, it was on the E85R and E85 nitrous tunes, using One Ethanol S fuel. I‘ve never dyno’d on the Flex or 93 tunes. I may try running on the 93 tune at the track one of these days to compare it with the E85R tune.

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[K4fxd]

I run a flex tune and it runs just as smooth as the non flex tune.

Lund is lazy is all I can say.

 

[NGOT8R]

I run a flex tune and it runs just as smooth as the non flex tune.

Lund is lazy is all I can say.

I know many people are dissatisfied with Lund, but I can say my tuning experiences with them have gone smoothly. However, I do often wonder if there is more power to be had via adjustments to the torque management settings, but I don’t know.

I actually never intended to really run on my 93 tune because I knew I was going FBO for max effort via E85. I absolutely love the evidence of a clean burn on the plugs from the E85 after 3 1/2 years.

 

[offroadkarter]

Is Lund saying you should use an e85 tune on e85, 93 tune on 93, and flex tune *only* when switching from one fuel to another?!? So you’re constantly playing musical tunes?

That is apparently the case, I had never heard this when I got my flex fuel tune from them back 2019. I specifically remember them saying at the time that the only difference between the flex fuel and E85R tunes was "a little more timing shoved in down low" on the E85R tune.

I've basically been on my flex fuel tune that entire time, I have a gen 2 coyote car, no idea if the gen 3 stuff is more finicky with flex fueling. I ran the E85R tune one time just to see if it felt any different. I've driven my car across the country and back on the flex fuel tune with zero issues. I'm well aware that the car needs a learning period when swapping fuels which I monitor with the Ngauge.


I absolutely do not like the idea of constantly re-flashing my car every time I want to swap tunes, I would be afraid one day something is going to hiccup and my PCM will brick itself and I'll be stuck at Sheetz with a dead car. Honestly I'm going to wait for the PCMTec setup with the in line flex fuel sensor to grow in popularity so I can migrate to that before I add anymore power mods. My car runs great as is I'm afraid to touch anything right now since I don't want to lose my flex setup.

 

[K4fxd]

That is apparently the case, I had never heard this when I got my flex fuel tune from them back 2019. I specifically remember them saying at the time that the only difference between the flex fuel and E85R tunes was "a little more timing shoved in down low" on the E85R tune.

They changed their tune due to software limitations of HP tuners for gen 3 and them wanting to sell the PCMtec can-bus flex system.

From a business point of view I can't fault them.

 

[engineermike]

That is apparently the case...I absolutely do not like the idea of constantly re-flashing my car every time I want to swap tunes

Yea, that's pretty dumb and not the end-user experience I'd be shooting for.

I specifically remember them saying at the time that the only difference between the flex fuel and E85R tunes was "a little more timing shoved in down low" on the E85R tune.

So basically, they're letting the knock advance handle the timing in the flex tune and increasing the borderline in the "E85R" tune.

What I do, in my belief, is the best of both worlds. I increase borderline as a function of ethanol content. This is also what Ford does. Once it learns the ethanol, then it "shoves" in the timing at all rpm rather than waiting on knock advance. This isn't possible on the Gen2 though, because the tables don't exist.

I've basically been on my flex fuel tune that entire time, I have a gen 2 coyote car, no idea if the gen 3 stuff is more finicky with flex fueling. I ran the E85R tune one time just to see if it felt any different. I've driven my car across the country and back on the flex fuel tune with zero issues. I'm well aware that the car needs a learning period when swapping fuels which I monitor with the Ngauge.

The Gen3 has much more flexibility in ethanol adaptation, but as others have mentioned is prone to premature locking into an incorrect ethanol % due to inadequate parameters available in HPTuners. However, these are super easy to find and fix using PCMTec.

 

[goldeneagle6747]

The Gen3 has much more flexibility in ethanol adaptation, but as others have mentioned is prone to premature locking into an incorrect ethanol % due to inadequate parameters available in HPTuners. However, these are super easy to find and fix using PCMTec.

Do you know of anyone who can do the PCMTec stateside right now? I can do any installation work just not tuning? If not I'll keep an eye out for places like Lund to get it.

 

[K4fxd]

Do you know of anyone who can do the PCMTec stateside right now?

https://www.pcmtec.com/workshops-global

There are several.

 

[ZXMustang]

I sure hope others like Wengerd get it. I won’t give a penny to that other shop.

 

[goldeneagle6747]

https://www.pcmtec.com/workshops-global

There are several.

Okay, I will just need to call around it seems as I have looked at most of the websites and they don't mention PCMTec flex tunes from what I have seen. The last car I tuned was my built 94 Corvette and I just plugged a cable from the ECM to my Laptop and could change whatever I wanted, cost me $50 for the cable so the newer high tech stuff is going slightly over my head.

I appreciate all the help.

 

[engineermike]

Okay, I will just need to call around it seems as I have looked at most of the websites and they don't mention PCMTec flex tunes from what I have seen. The last car I tuned was my built 94 Corvette and I just plugged a cable from the ECM to my Laptop and could change whatever I wanted, cost me $50 for the cable so the newer high tech stuff is going slightly over my head.

I appreciate all the help.

PCMTec is similar but probably more like $500. Flashing takes less than 30 seconds now, though, and the PCM logic is a bit more complicated.

 

[shogun32]

Car is completely stock but looking at getting catted LTHs in the nearish future.

You're just wasting money for no good reason. Get the livernois e85/flex as mikepol2 has or do as k4 said and wait for the PCM tech solution.

 

[ZXMustang]

Yeah skip the headers until you get boost.

 

[goldeneagle6747]

Yeah skip the headers until you get boost.

Yeah I did some research this morning and came to a similar conclusion, on my corvette LTH got me about 40 HP on the dyno so that's where my head went first with this car. There is also a possibility I switch up my career in about 1-2 years so I don't wanna end up with headers in a state that does inspection. My current state does not so I hadn't thought about that part of it.

 

[K4fxd]

Yeah I did some research this morning and came to a similar conclusion, on my corvette LTH got me about 40 HP on the dyno so that's where my head went first with this car.

Ford did a good job with the mustang exhaust. These are shorty headers and not manifolds. A set of headers will give 20 hp give or take. On a 400 HP engine not really noticeable.

You are gen 3, so a good tuner who has PCMtec software can get 35 to 40 on E85. You don't need to add a sensor if your tuner knows what he is doing with the mentioned software.

I believe Livernois has 50 State legal tunes.

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