Carbon Wheel Experience Regarding Damage

[JN66]

I’ve spoken to Patrick on a number of occasions about doing a set of wheels for my GTR Pro. Just waiting on a wider barrel in the magnesium.

Guy is a beauty.

Sponsored

 

[dsiggi]

This was a great thread to go back and read through. As someone who has a close personal friend that has worked on different programs with @BillyJRacing at FP, I respect both of their opinions. Also having a set of Aluminum wheels from Terrance, I see many of his points and based on my situation have a set. Sometimes i want the car to be more daily friendly for my application and create less stress. I understand @Tomster s early concerns about hearing all the stones and wondering when they will get stuck in the calipers. (read below to find out why)

I am one that always tries to understand what each little change to the car I have will impact on what the OEM intended. Ask my buddy, between my Raptor/GT350R I probably drive him nuts with all my questions. Why do I ask all these questions, for many of the reasons Billy has outlined around misinformation in this thread. Frankly, the aftermarket (in general) is no where near the OEM (not saying the OEM is infallible, they can tend to do many mind boggling things), but no one understands the whole system like the oem, has the R&D budget, etc etc and thanks for Billy putting all this information out on the internet for us to understand and read. I know I've learned quite a bit.

I'm not the fastest driver and I don't track my car (yet, maybe I will, maybe I wont), but I can tell an immediate difference in the dynamics of the car (as billy outlines) on the CF/Cup 2 vs my SV902 and Hankook tires. The grip on a hard brake, not even close, the flex i get in the front end of the car during hard braking, its quite noticeable. Turn in, not the same. I do however have a paved but someone crappy road I live on. I drive very slow and negotiate around pot holes but man its full of debris and stones, some small, some not so small. I have very little fear after having the carbons of issues with curbing or road impacts. It took me a while to get there, and I also am the only person to drive the car and am very conscious of where i am and where I'm going. My biggest issue is the cup2 and the stones for my application. I've agonized (again ask my poor friend) over my next set of tires for the carbons because I like to keep what the OEM intended, but after much thought based on my situation will be going to the 295/305 setup on the PS4S as suggested by BIlly (again read his articles on performance and picking the correct tire on why the downsize on the PS4S is appropriate) for a few reasons.

1) Will pick up less stones and will just allow me to drive my carbons more often in my situation - WIN! I WANT TO DRIVE MY CARBONS!!! The hardest thing to fix is the ceramic coating on the carbons as it has to go to Spider composites. If i had an option locally in MI, id prob just drive over there no concerns and get things fixed and drive on CUP2 and Carbons because they are so good.

2) I live in MI and I want to be able to drive to different places on the carbons beyond few hour drive and get caught in a rain storm and not have a fear of dying from standing water. We can get a lot of rain in MI in the summer months and it can come fast. A friend totaled his R in a rain storm in 2017 from standing water.

3) For a longer road trip and all the stuff you can find randomly on freeways etc, I'd rather toast a aluminum wheel and pick up the tab then toast a carbon wheel and pick it up or file an insurance claim. There is just inherently more risk on longer trips.

So I've picked the best for my situation trying to get as close to OEM as I can and keep as much of the feel as I can. I'm hoping I made the correct choice. If it wasn't for my direct application and crap roads, i would love to get another set of CUP2's on the car with the carbons.

 

[Tomster]

This was a great thread to go back and read through. As someone who has a close personal friend that has worked on different programs with @BillyJRacing at FP, I respect both of their opinions. Also having a set of Aluminum wheels from Terrance, I see many of his points and based on my situation have a set. Sometimes i want the car to be more daily friendly for my application and create less stress. I understand @Tomster s early concerns about hearing all the stones and wondering when they will get stuck in the calipers. (read below to find out why)

I am one that always tries to understand what each little change to the car I have will impact on what the OEM intended. Ask my buddy, between my Raptor/GT350R I probably drive him nuts with all my questions. Why do I ask all these questions, for many of the reasons Billy has outlined around misinformation in this thread. Frankly, the aftermarket (in general) is no where near the OEM (not saying the OEM is infallible, they can tend to do many mind boggling things), but no one understands the whole system like the oem, has the R&D budget, etc etc and thanks for Billy putting all this information out on the internet for us to understand and read. I know I've learned quite a bit.

I'm not the fastest driver and I don't track my car (yet, maybe I will, maybe I wont), but I can tell an immediate difference in the dynamics of the car (as billy outlines) on the CF/Cup 2 vs my SV902 and Hankook tires. The grip on a hard brake, not even close, the flex i get in the front end of the car during hard braking, its quite noticeable. Turn in, not the same. I do however have a paved but someone crappy road I live on. I drive very slow and negotiate around pot holes but man its full of debris and stones, some small, some not so small. I have very little fear after having the carbons of issues with curbing or road impacts. It took me a while to get there, and I also am the only person to drive the car and am very conscious of where i am and where I'm going. My biggest issue is the cup2 and the stones for my application. I've agonized (again ask my poor friend) over my next set of tires for the carbons because I like to keep what the OEM intended, but after much thought based on my situation will be going to the 295/305 setup on the PS4S as suggested by BIlly (again read his articles on performance and picking the correct tire on why the downsize on the PS4S is appropriate) for a few reasons.

1) Will pick up less stones and will just allow me to drive my carbons more often in my situation - WIN! I WANT TO DRIVE MY CARBONS!!! The hardest thing to fix is the ceramic coating on the carbons as it has to go to Spider composites. If i had an option locally in MI, id prob just drive over there no concerns and get things fixed and drive on CUP2 and Carbons because they are so good.

2) I live in MI and I want to be able to drive to different places on the carbons beyond few hour drive and get caught in a rain storm and not have a fear of dying from standing water. We can get a lot of rain in MI in the summer months and it can come fast. A friend totaled his R in a rain storm in 2017 from standing water.

3) For a longer road trip and all the stuff you can find randomly on freeways etc, I'd rather toast a aluminum wheel and pick up the tab then toast a carbon wheel and pick it up or file an insurance claim. There is just inherently more risk on longer trips.

So I've picked the best for my situation trying to get as close to OEM as I can and keep as much of the feel as I can. I'm hoping I made the correct choice. If it wasn't for my direct application and crap roads, i would love to get another set of CUP2's on the car with the carbons.

My opinions have changed over time concerning the use of CF wheels on the street. At first, when the wheels were new, there was a fear over damage because nobody really understood how easily CF wheels can be repaired. A major concern was the ceramic lining on the front barrels. There was no perfect fix. Spyder composites had a ceramic material where stone damage could be covered, but it wasn't optimal. There is now in place a process that replaces the barrel lining with the exact same material as used by CR.

I talk to Frank quite a bit. I am constantly buying these wheels and for the most part repairing them on my own. Cf is a very stiff and resilient wheel. The beauty of composites are that most everything (and I would say with the exception of severe damage to a spoke or hub) can be repaired. The same cannot be said for an aluminum wheel.

I have repaired at least 8 exposed CF GT500 wheels (4 of which are on my car and being used for everyday and track duty) and 8 or so CF GT350 wheels. I posted a thread on the process if anyone cares to search for it.

I recall the mass hysteria about damaging CF wheels and people resorting to the use of aluminum street wheels. I remember it was a very heated debate about which was better. I used to be in the crowd that felt aluminum wheels were the way to go.... that is until I realized how easy it is to repair them and how resilient the wheels are to repair.

I look at it this way. The a major performance factor and part of which makes the car so unique is the CF wheels. Why tuck them away in your garage to gather dust. It just doesn't make sense.

I will leave you with an example of how much damage can occur and still be repaired. I chose not to repair this one myself. I sent this one to Frank. He reported it is 100% repairable. Any significant damage to an aluminum wheel leaves it a paperweight.

 

[lightrules]

just posted by carbon revolution and frank from spyder composites is in this video too:

 

[Dharri21]

The CF's will be back on tomorrow.

 

[TonyNJ]

This was a great thread to go back and read through. As someone who has a close personal friend that has worked on different programs with @BillyJRacing at FP, I respect both of their opinions. Also having a set of Aluminum wheels from Terrance, I see many of his points and based on my situation have a set. Sometimes i want the car to be more daily friendly for my application and create less stress. I understand @Tomster s early concerns about hearing all the stones and wondering when they will get stuck in the calipers. (read below to find out why)

I am one that always tries to understand what each little change to the car I have will impact on what the OEM intended. Ask my buddy, between my Raptor/GT350R I probably drive him nuts with all my questions. Why do I ask all these questions, for many of the reasons Billy has outlined around misinformation in this thread. Frankly, the aftermarket (in general) is no where near the OEM (not saying the OEM is infallible, they can tend to do many mind boggling things), but no one understands the whole system like the oem, has the R&D budget, etc etc and thanks for Billy putting all this information out on the internet for us to understand and read. I know I've learned quite a bit.

I'm not the fastest driver and I don't track my car (yet, maybe I will, maybe I wont), but I can tell an immediate difference in the dynamics of the car (as billy outlines) on the CF/Cup 2 vs my SV902 and Hankook tires. The grip on a hard brake, not even close, the flex i get in the front end of the car during hard braking, its quite noticeable. Turn in, not the same. I do however have a paved but someone crappy road I live on. I drive very slow and negotiate around pot holes but man its full of debris and stones, some small, some not so small. I have very little fear after having the carbons of issues with curbing or road impacts. It took me a while to get there, and I also am the only person to drive the car and am very conscious of where i am and where I'm going. My biggest issue is the cup2 and the stones for my application. I've agonized (again ask my poor friend) over my next set of tires for the carbons because I like to keep what the OEM intended, but after much thought based on my situation will be going to the 295/305 setup on the PS4S as suggested by BIlly (again read his articles on performance and picking the correct tire on why the downsize on the PS4S is appropriate) for a few reasons.

1) Will pick up less stones and will just allow me to drive my carbons more often in my situation - WIN! I WANT TO DRIVE MY CARBONS!!! The hardest thing to fix is the ceramic coating on the carbons as it has to go to Spider composites. If i had an option locally in MI, id prob just drive over there no concerns and get things fixed and drive on CUP2 and Carbons because they are so good.

2) I live in MI and I want to be able to drive to different places on the carbons beyond few hour drive and get caught in a rain storm and not have a fear of dying from standing water. We can get a lot of rain in MI in the summer months and it can come fast. A friend totaled his R in a rain storm in 2017 from standing water.

3) For a longer road trip and all the stuff you can find randomly on freeways etc, I'd rather toast a aluminum wheel and pick up the tab then toast a carbon wheel and pick it up or file an insurance claim. There is just inherently more risk on longer trips.

So I've picked the best for my situation trying to get as close to OEM as I can and keep as much of the feel as I can. I'm hoping I made the correct choice. If it wasn't for my direct application and crap roads, i would love to get another set of CUP2's on the car with the carbons.

Hey man. Your post resonated with me. How did this all work out for you? Did the downsized PS4S provide that compromise?

 

[dsiggi]

Hey man. Your post resonated with me. How did this all work out for you? Did the downsized PS4S provide that compromise?

@TonyNJ Truth be told, I have not had a chance to change back to the carbon wheels since I had the PS4's mounted up in July. I may still have a chance this fall, but it also may be next spring. Ive been crazy busy but want to try them out so badly. Stay tuned!

 

[stanglife]

just posted by carbon revolution and frank from spyder composites is in this video too:

They seemed to focus specifically on curbing and not the more extensive structural repairs that (from what others have said) they do perform. You could see the small form/jig that they had for the shape around the edge for the curb repair. I wonder if they have some larger molds/forms that they use for the more serious damage - and perhaps they didn't want to share those which would be understandable.

 

[Tomster]

They seemed to focus specifically on curbing and not the more extensive structural repairs that (from what others have said) they do perform. You could see the small form/jig that they had for the shape around the edge for the curb repair. I wonder if they have some larger molds/forms that they use for the more serious damage - and perhaps they didn't want to share those which would be understandable.

No, they dont.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

if the CF doesn't shatter you can fix it. its my understanding that CF wheels are actually more forgiving than aluminum and steel wheels simply because if they flex they tend to return to their shape. at bottom CF is just resin infused fibers.

 

[Tomster]

if the CF doesn't shatter you can fix it. its my understanding that CF wheels are actually more forgiving than aluminum and steel wheels simply because if they flex they tend to return to their shape. at bottom CF is just resin infused fibers.

Exactly. Furthermore, even if the CF fibers are damaged, depending on the area of concern, that can be repaired too.

 

[Grant4514b]

Looks like I’ll be sending mine off to Spyder this winter. 700 miles on the car. Was driving on a clean paved road - no idea where the rock came from. Pulled the wheel and sprayed it with a small electric pressure washer. The ceramic coating easily peels away from the wheel, just like removing the shell from a hard boiled egg.

 

[Tomster]

Looks like I’ll be sending mine off to Spyder this winter. 700 miles on the car. Was driving on a clean paved road - no idea where the rock came from. Pulled the wheel and sprayed it with a small electric pressure washer. The ceramic coating easily peels away from the wheel, just like removing the shell from a hard boiled egg.

That looks like a delamination defect. That should be replaced under warranty.

 

[dsiggi]

Looks like I’ll be sending mine off to Spyder this winter. 700 miles on the car. Was driving on a clean paved road - no idea where the rock came from. Pulled the wheel and sprayed it with a small electric pressure washer. The ceramic coating easily peels away from the wheel, just like removing the shell from a hard boiled egg.

You and me both brother. Had the same issue. Once its opened up, it will peel if you put any pressure wash etc on it as the edges are lifted. I got a rock in front of my house, seriously in front of my house but it only made it a quarter of the way around as I was going 5 mph! I was turning around a large bend and those tires like to grab stones and im sure one grabbed, hit the inside of the wheel and that nice rough coating has enough friction to lock it right into place under the caliper I also had some delamination of the white coating on a prior wheel that did get accepted under warranty, I tried one with similar to yours and got denied. Just as an FYI

 

[TonyNJ]

You and me both brother. Had the same issue. Once its opened up, it will peel if you put any pressure wash etc on it as the edges are lifted. I got a rock in front of my house, seriously in front of my house but it only made it a quarter of the way around as I was going 5 mph! I was turning around a large bend and those tires like to grab stones and im sure one grabbed, hit the inside of the wheel and that nice rough coating has enough friction to lock it right into place under the caliper I also had some delamination of the white coating on a prior wheel that did get accepted under warranty, I tried one with similar to yours and got denied. Just as an FYI

So by leaving that untreated, the CF could be exposed to heat from the brakes and cause damage to the CF core?

Sponsored