Boosted Timing Info

[BlownOne]

Curious about what everyone’s timing does wot on their e85 boosted s550’s. Pump gas guys feel free to chime in also. Wanting to know if you see your timing hold all the way through the rpm range (3rd gear) or if it tapers down as you approach your shift point. Does it start at 20* and taper down to 18* or does it start at 19* and taper down to 15* etc? Also how much do you see knock advancing timing during the hit? Does it give you -7* at the start of the hit and -3* up top etc? I suppose we should specify rpm range, boost levels, iat’s and ambient temp too.

I’m trying to determine if timing advance tapering down (even in ideal conditions) as boost and rpm goes up is common across the platform. I’ll start with mine and if everyone contributing could follow the basic layout that would help compare info.

Year: ‘17 Gt
Fuel: e85 and 100% methanol 630 ml/min nozzle
Max Boost: 17psi
Total timing: 19-20* at the hit and 15-16* up top with a gradual taper
Knock: -7* Knock on the hit and -2* knock up top
Ambient Air temp: 75* ambient
Iat: 80* starting 90* ending iat swing during 3rd gear pull from 3500-7600rpm

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[kcc0521]

check my logs out in this thread. My car is on paxton 3.48. Around 15 psi

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100882

 

[ahl395]

Timing tapers off up top because you're making more boost up top. More boost means less timing usually governed by octane. The tune will also lower timing according to load which can be adjusted in the tune.

If you're on e85 and methanol, even with 17psi I would expect more than 16* up top. I would talk to your tuner to see if it can take more timing. Like I said, the tune may be limited to how much timing it will add with the knock sensors based on boost/load. I've read boosted E85 coyotes can do 22*+, depending on boost level of course. It's possible that you've reached the limit of timing at 17psi but only your tuner could tell you.

That being said, at a certain point you will reach the maximum timing that makes more power, after that you're just putting stress on the engine for no gain. I'm not sure what that is for our motors though.

Here's my stats with my last nozzle. Knock reading wont really matter since timing is telling you what the knock sensors are doing. But it will tell how much timing is commanded in the tune versus how much is being added with the sensors.

Year: 17 GT
Fuel: 93 with 60/40 meth/water 625 ml/min Snow nozzle
Max Boost: 13.5psi
Total timing: 18* at the hit, climbed to 22*, tapered to 21*
Knock: -1.25* Knock on the hit and -3.89* knock up top
Ambient Air temp: Dont remember
Iat: 28* starting 54* ending iat swing during 3rd gear pull from 2500-7400rpm

 

[Platinum_5.0]

Well I'm a pump gas guy. Whipple stage 2. I'm on the whipple calibration also. On initial hit I'm at 17*. I'm PD so boost stays the same across the rev range but by the time I'm at 7200 my timing is at 22*. That's pretty aggressive for me just being on pump. Knock was -1.45 but on the second pull I started seeing knock and timing was pulled to 18*. 68f temps, 94 Oct. I will be custom tuning just to hold timing around 18*.

 

[gimmie11s]

Good thread.. interesting to read what is making power on the different types of FI applications.

 

[rio16]

sorry, how do i see the timing in my logs. Thank you

 

[Tommy V]

I'm running e85 and my holds timing at 20 degrees all the way to 7500 rpm,only problem I have sometimes is my trans shifts so hard in third that it sometimes pulls some timing out right at that shift but starts adding it right back in.Another good thing to look at in your logs is mph and rpm to see if your spinning at shifts.I spun on a shift to 3rd and a 20mph difference in mph and that caused my car to pull timing.My car starts ramping timing in and usually by the end of first it is at max timing,
15 to 16 psi
-7 knock and stays unless spinning
Intake air 35 Celsius at end of run.Cool day.

 

[Tommy V]

I might be able to get Kcc0521 to post my 2 logs of the track and u can see how spinning right at a shift can pull a bunch of timing.

 

[yote41]

on my centri setup on 93 im seeing 17 steady

 

[Tommy V]

Well I'm a pump gas guy. Whipple stage 2. I'm on the whipple calibration also. On initial hit I'm at 17*. I'm PD so boost stays the same across the rev range but by the time I'm at 7200 my timing is at 22*. That's pretty aggressive for me just being on pump. Knock was -1.45 but on the second pull I started seeing knock and timing was pulled to 18*. 68f temps, 94 Oct. I will be custom tuning just to hold timing around 18*.

22 degrees is too much timing for 93 unless your running 7 lbs of boost.I only could get to 15 degrees of timing on my d1 on 93.This was running up to 7400 rpm and started to get positive knock,but also my 4.88 pulley was seeing 14 psi of boost.

 

[Platinum_5.0]

22 degrees is too much timing for 93 unless your running 7 lbs of boost.I only could get to 15 degrees of timing on my d1 on 93.This was running up to 7400 rpm and started to get positive knock,but also my 4.88 pulley was seeing 14 psi of boost.

Yes I totally agree. Me and my friend who was running the dyno and log was pretty surprised, kinda scared actually. I'm not sure exactly the boost I'm seeing yet. It's the 3.75 pulley from Whipple so maybe 10psi? I'm at 2200ft elevation so maybe I'm down 1 or .5 of a pound? Either way 22* is way too much for 94 I totally agree. I want my motor to live...lol...17* will be what we tune it for.

 

[Tommy V]

Yes I totally agree. Me and my friend who was running the dyno and log was pretty surprised, kinda scared actually. I'm not sure exactly the boost I'm seeing yet. It's the 3.75 pulley from Whipple so maybe 10psi? I'm at 2200ft elevation so maybe I'm down 1 or .5 of a pound? Either way 22* is way too much for 94 I totally agree. I want my motor to live...lol...17* will be what we tune it for.

Yea I think that would be fine at 10 psi boost,but make sure u log it to make sure,all gas is not created equal lol.

 

[Ponderthis]

mine seems to be around 16-17* on 93+Octanium at 12psi on twins.. knock sensors are happy..

 

[whatsup62]

Here is a condensed version of my last log.

 

[Obsol3te]

Mine peaks at 19º at 8100 on 93
Zero knock, 4" pulley makes 13lbs when you rev it to the moon(the moon is 8k)

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