Kong76
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Making note, will do.
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Kong76
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Just got a call, they said they think they found the problem. They are saying its the timing chain tensioner. Need to order parts so middle of next week.
Guess we will see when I get it back. I inquired about doing opg/cg but they said they would need to drop the pan and would be $900 labor. I thought that would already be done to get to the chain, but I guess not.
Guess we will see when I get it back. I inquired about doing opg/cg but they said they would need to drop the pan and would be $900 labor. I thought that would already be done to get to the chain, but I guess not.
GT Pony
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@Kong76 - did the dealer say how they determined it was the timing chain tensioner? I don't doubt a bad tensioner could cause engine noises, but I don't think it's what causes the BBQ Tick.
Let us know if the new tensioner cures your engine noise.
Kong76
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All he said was that they were eliminating possible scenarios starting with intake manifold and came across a weak timing chain tensioner causing slack. He said it didnt fail and no metal shavings or damage to the chain. Said they are just replacing the tensioner. If it fixes the problem great, if not well it goes back or I trade for a 19'. Ill let you know next wednesday how it goes.
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Kong76
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I do, but I am not very good at uploading. Exactly similiar to most of the videos 1000-2000 rpm, sporadic ticking sound that increases with rpms most pronounced under light load coming from a stop. Ill try to figure out how to post.
My concern is if its a bad tensioner how did it go bad? Is it an oil pressure issue? Aren't our tensioners hydraulically driven.
My concern is if its a bad tensioner how did it go bad? Is it an oil pressure issue? Aren't our tensioners hydraulically driven.
ponyv6
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Update on mine:
VCT solenoids replaced the noise was still there.
Now they are changing cam phasers.
it has been 7weeks and counting. Somebody please tell me how long they can keep it and not approve a buy back?
Dealer was very nice to give me a mustang as a loaner finally. It is a ecoboost but I prefer this over F150 day and night.
the reason why they are attacking to cam stuff is when they kill the variable cam timing the noise stops. At this point I am not sure if that is correct since after changing the vct solenoids the tech thought it was fixed.
VCT solenoids replaced the noise was still there.
Now they are changing cam phasers.
it has been 7weeks and counting. Somebody please tell me how long they can keep it and not approve a buy back?
Dealer was very nice to give me a mustang as a loaner finally. It is a ecoboost but I prefer this over F150 day and night.
the reason why they are attacking to cam stuff is when they kill the variable cam timing the noise stops. At this point I am not sure if that is correct since after changing the vct solenoids the tech thought it was fixed.
88lx50
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I wonder if killing the solenoids causes a change in oil pressure, or volume, eliminating the noise? Could still be from the bottom end but that slight change in pressure or volume affects it.
Kong76
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Just picked up the car. They said they replaced the timing chain tensioners. Notes say it diminished the noise. Went on to say they verified what noise was left was normal compared to another similar car.
Drove two miles home, pulled into garage and what do you know still tapping. I won't take it back. I'm done.
Drove two miles home, pulled into garage and what do you know still tapping. I won't take it back. I'm done.
GT Pony
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Might as well try some Cera Tec.
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Kong76
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Yes sir, I think I will.
barron64
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Anybody checked out Michael Mac's video on youtube...Fixed my tick in 2018 Mustang GT? He has a supercharged 2018 running mid 10's in the mid 130's in the 1/4mi and he had the BBQ tick. His secret is running 5w-40 Shell Rotella.
For what it is worth I have 4000mi on my 18 and occasionally hear the engine tick. Going to do my first oil change shortly and run Mobile 1, 5w-30. May try a bottle of Rislone engine oil treatment which I had a lot of success with quieting the HLA's on my 1990 Mazda Miata. I personally believe the sound is hydraulic lash adjuster or hydraulic timing chain tensioner related. If that doesn't work there is the Ceratek option and finally the Rotella option out there. Also noticed that Roush specifies 5w-50 oil for the 2018 GT when running their supercharger kit (CJPonyparts video installation) so the thicker weight oil does not seem to pose any issues.
For what it is worth I have 4000mi on my 18 and occasionally hear the engine tick. Going to do my first oil change shortly and run Mobile 1, 5w-30. May try a bottle of Rislone engine oil treatment which I had a lot of success with quieting the HLA's on my 1990 Mazda Miata. I personally believe the sound is hydraulic lash adjuster or hydraulic timing chain tensioner related. If that doesn't work there is the Ceratek option and finally the Rotella option out there. Also noticed that Roush specifies 5w-50 oil for the 2018 GT when running their supercharger kit (CJPonyparts video installation) so the thicker weight oil does not seem to pose any issues.
Kong76
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I just got my car today. It had the timing chain tensioners replaced. Did not solve the problem.
HermanGerman
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sorry to hear that, if you go like many of us the cera tec way, please let us know if it works for you aswell. worked for me so far. tried a half bottle first , because oillevel was full and after 300km i used the rest of it. it is just a small 300ml bottle and the oil Level is just 1mm to high now. 1mm is 0,03inch . so that will not cause a Problem in a Coyote engine filled with 9,5 litres or 10 Quarts of Oil
TheLion
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Guys, found several other possible solutions. Here's one that's undergone extensive research and testing, it's only the nano-ceramic additive without chemical lubricants. So it's a solid lubricant additive. I'm not sure if this is hBN based or something similar, but for what it's worth there is a lot of certified lab testing data with multiple real world engine tests and tear downs: https://shop.tribotex.com/pages/technical-reports
TriboTEX was originally developed with grants from DOD, NASA and DOE for use in alternative energy applications, in particular reduced friction in wind turbine gear boxes to increase the energy capture. As I've said before, oils SUCK at boundary layer lubrication. They do not lubricate very well in gear boxes, cams, timing chains etc. but do lubricate very well for hydrodynamic bearing applications like rod and wrist pin bearings or even cam shaft bearings that ride on fluid films.
There are substantial losses in the 5.0L just due to friction. As I've been saying all along, higher revving engines with more cams are going to see larger benefits are their frictional losses are greater. That's one advantage of Cam In Block designs like the GM 5th Gen LT1 6.2L and Dodge 6.4L engines, they have half the valve train frictional losses that a DOHC variant has. Absolutely they would benefit from hBN or other nano-particle boundary layer friction modifiers, however their benefits would be smaller due to less inherent losses from friction in the valve train.
Another one i've found is Archoil. It is more or less a US made competitor to Cera Tec. It's also hBN based and suspended in a Ester Group V base oil, so in my opinion it is a higher quality variant than Cera Tec which is suspended in a Group III base oil. I'm not in any way knocking Cera Tec and there's no reason you couldn't switch over later on. Cera Tec is still a great hBN additive and will still perform very well, but I would expect Archoil to outperform Cera Tech due to the Group V Ester base oil alone if all other additives were relatively equal. All of these nano-particle additives say they are compatible with all available motor oils and also other additives as they are chemically inert (at least the solid lubricants are). Certainly you don't want too much or too little of anything. I would recommend picking one and sticking with it as opposed to mixing.
https://www.archoil.com/products/ar9100-oil-additive
I'm very interested in all three, but most interested in TriboTex because it is a solid lubricant additive only. It does not contain any chemical additives and was heavily researched with funding from some major players for energy harvesting applications. All of these additives are nano-sized particulates, so there's no issues with common automotive oil filters, even fine 1 micron diesel filters have pours 10x larger than the particulates. Not going to clog the filters or affect flow efficiency, nor are they going to clog oil passage galleys. More or less the provide a micro-coating function that creates an extremely low friction surface and act as a sacrificial layer with low shear aka they have high lubricity.
There has been one DOCUMENTED case where a Ford Field Engineer specifically told an OP to use carbon powder additives (no specific brand) to quiet down or eliminate the "BBQ Tick" in a Boss 302 that was on it's 2nd engine, yes it's 2nd engine also started ticking. Neither engine had ANY drive ability issues either, it was replaced due to the ticking. They ran just fine for reference and the additive did solve that issue. We also have multiple OP's now who have used Cera Tech successfully to quiet down various engine noises, some are BBQ Tick sufferes, others are 2018's that just want to quiet down normal mechanical noise form the HPFP and valvetrain. So at this point we have 3 widely available possible solutions all based on nano solid lubricants whose primary purpose is to enhance boundary layer lubrication which current motor oil formulas are still lacking in.
Cera Tec - most affordable solution, but also lowest quality base oil which is a Group III. Now remember that most off the shelf synthetics like Mobil 1, Valvoline etc. are mostly made up of Group III's with a good additive package and maybe some small percentage of Group IV or even Group V oils mixed in, so it's not a sub-par, it's just not as good as other dual action chemical + solid lubricant friction modifiers.
Archoil - similar to Cera Tech but is suspended in a Group V Ester base oil which is of the highest quality base oil (well that an PAO's). Also made in the USA and widely available.
TriboTEX - solid lubricant only, so it is the most "compatible" as it contains no base oil which can mildly alter oil viscosity and oil properties. Highest concentration of solid lubricant relative tot he other two. Supposed to last for 40,000 miles and you DO NOT loose any chemical lubrication benefits with an oil change unlike the other two which loose their chemical protection once the oil is changed. I'd expect TriboTEX to have the most consistent performance over it's service interval for those reasons.
There is one other benefit of solid lubricants, they provide enough added protection via coating that in the case where oil pressure is lost for a short period of time and the hydrodynamic bearings collapse (aka your rod bearings have metal on metal contact), then the nano film will provide short term protection that could save your rod bearings if you catch the issue in time and stop driving the car.
Benefits of solid lubrication enhancement of common motor oils:
1. Increased boundary layer lubrication reduces heat generated from friction.
2. Increased boundary layer lubrication reduces resistance (energy loss) from friction, aka better fuel economy and more power.
3. Increased boundary layer lubrication reduces wear rates as the solid lubricant is a sacrificial wear item, just like motor oil is.
4. Self polishing effect of solid lubricants increase the seal of the piston rings and oil control rings which provide two benefits, first being reduced blow by so your oil's base number stays higher longer (aka less acid contamination / thinning), second being lower oil consumption as the control rings are more effective at removing oil from the cylinder walls (remember oil sucks at boundary layer lubrication in the first place, so the oil itself is not doing much for your rings / cylinder walls, only solid lubricants will have any meaningful effect)
5. Chemically inert, so it won't interfere with existing additives already in the oil such as Zinc or Molybdenum etc.
I've seen some well documented data for both Cera Tech and TriboTEX with performance cars seeing gains of around 3-5% power to the wheels as well as countless reports of slightly increased fuel economy while cruising. Usually on the order of 1-3 mpg depending on the car and it's application including a 2013 F-150 (same as my parents have) with a 5.0 V8 gaining 1 mpg after just several hundred miles of use.
Most people are creatures of habit, so while driving conditions vary, my own experience yields a very consistent average fuel consumption in all my vehicles day to day and week to week. So 1, 2 or 3 mpg increase is generally consistently measurable in long term averaging.
Other than cost, I see no down side. All of them report reduced noise, from lash adjuster noises to other mechanical noises. So I think any of the three solutions would work for the BBQ Tick or Type Writer Tick assuming it's cause is the common big end side to side clearances and not something more serious.
So we have Cera Tec, TiboTEX and Archoil all of which are great solutions. I may try Cera Tec in my Prius C and TriboTEX in my Mustang GT and see how that goes. Amazon carries all three I believe. Also note many people report a very slight increase in oil pressure, due to better sealing, which would also affect mechanical noise.
The BBQ Tick generally disappears once you get past around 2,500 RPM in most GT's that have it. So slight increase in pressure at a given RPM may create more a cushion for the bottom end and that may be the primary reason for the noise reduction, at least that's my current theory.
TriboTEX was originally developed with grants from DOD, NASA and DOE for use in alternative energy applications, in particular reduced friction in wind turbine gear boxes to increase the energy capture. As I've said before, oils SUCK at boundary layer lubrication. They do not lubricate very well in gear boxes, cams, timing chains etc. but do lubricate very well for hydrodynamic bearing applications like rod and wrist pin bearings or even cam shaft bearings that ride on fluid films.
There are substantial losses in the 5.0L just due to friction. As I've been saying all along, higher revving engines with more cams are going to see larger benefits are their frictional losses are greater. That's one advantage of Cam In Block designs like the GM 5th Gen LT1 6.2L and Dodge 6.4L engines, they have half the valve train frictional losses that a DOHC variant has. Absolutely they would benefit from hBN or other nano-particle boundary layer friction modifiers, however their benefits would be smaller due to less inherent losses from friction in the valve train.
Another one i've found is Archoil. It is more or less a US made competitor to Cera Tec. It's also hBN based and suspended in a Ester Group V base oil, so in my opinion it is a higher quality variant than Cera Tec which is suspended in a Group III base oil. I'm not in any way knocking Cera Tec and there's no reason you couldn't switch over later on. Cera Tec is still a great hBN additive and will still perform very well, but I would expect Archoil to outperform Cera Tech due to the Group V Ester base oil alone if all other additives were relatively equal. All of these nano-particle additives say they are compatible with all available motor oils and also other additives as they are chemically inert (at least the solid lubricants are). Certainly you don't want too much or too little of anything. I would recommend picking one and sticking with it as opposed to mixing.
https://www.archoil.com/products/ar9100-oil-additive
I'm very interested in all three, but most interested in TriboTex because it is a solid lubricant additive only. It does not contain any chemical additives and was heavily researched with funding from some major players for energy harvesting applications. All of these additives are nano-sized particulates, so there's no issues with common automotive oil filters, even fine 1 micron diesel filters have pours 10x larger than the particulates. Not going to clog the filters or affect flow efficiency, nor are they going to clog oil passage galleys. More or less the provide a micro-coating function that creates an extremely low friction surface and act as a sacrificial layer with low shear aka they have high lubricity.
There has been one DOCUMENTED case where a Ford Field Engineer specifically told an OP to use carbon powder additives (no specific brand) to quiet down or eliminate the "BBQ Tick" in a Boss 302 that was on it's 2nd engine, yes it's 2nd engine also started ticking. Neither engine had ANY drive ability issues either, it was replaced due to the ticking. They ran just fine for reference and the additive did solve that issue. We also have multiple OP's now who have used Cera Tech successfully to quiet down various engine noises, some are BBQ Tick sufferes, others are 2018's that just want to quiet down normal mechanical noise form the HPFP and valvetrain. So at this point we have 3 widely available possible solutions all based on nano solid lubricants whose primary purpose is to enhance boundary layer lubrication which current motor oil formulas are still lacking in.
Cera Tec - most affordable solution, but also lowest quality base oil which is a Group III. Now remember that most off the shelf synthetics like Mobil 1, Valvoline etc. are mostly made up of Group III's with a good additive package and maybe some small percentage of Group IV or even Group V oils mixed in, so it's not a sub-par, it's just not as good as other dual action chemical + solid lubricant friction modifiers.
Archoil - similar to Cera Tech but is suspended in a Group V Ester base oil which is of the highest quality base oil (well that an PAO's). Also made in the USA and widely available.
TriboTEX - solid lubricant only, so it is the most "compatible" as it contains no base oil which can mildly alter oil viscosity and oil properties. Highest concentration of solid lubricant relative tot he other two. Supposed to last for 40,000 miles and you DO NOT loose any chemical lubrication benefits with an oil change unlike the other two which loose their chemical protection once the oil is changed. I'd expect TriboTEX to have the most consistent performance over it's service interval for those reasons.
There is one other benefit of solid lubricants, they provide enough added protection via coating that in the case where oil pressure is lost for a short period of time and the hydrodynamic bearings collapse (aka your rod bearings have metal on metal contact), then the nano film will provide short term protection that could save your rod bearings if you catch the issue in time and stop driving the car.
Benefits of solid lubrication enhancement of common motor oils:
1. Increased boundary layer lubrication reduces heat generated from friction.
2. Increased boundary layer lubrication reduces resistance (energy loss) from friction, aka better fuel economy and more power.
3. Increased boundary layer lubrication reduces wear rates as the solid lubricant is a sacrificial wear item, just like motor oil is.
4. Self polishing effect of solid lubricants increase the seal of the piston rings and oil control rings which provide two benefits, first being reduced blow by so your oil's base number stays higher longer (aka less acid contamination / thinning), second being lower oil consumption as the control rings are more effective at removing oil from the cylinder walls (remember oil sucks at boundary layer lubrication in the first place, so the oil itself is not doing much for your rings / cylinder walls, only solid lubricants will have any meaningful effect)
5. Chemically inert, so it won't interfere with existing additives already in the oil such as Zinc or Molybdenum etc.
I've seen some well documented data for both Cera Tech and TriboTEX with performance cars seeing gains of around 3-5% power to the wheels as well as countless reports of slightly increased fuel economy while cruising. Usually on the order of 1-3 mpg depending on the car and it's application including a 2013 F-150 (same as my parents have) with a 5.0 V8 gaining 1 mpg after just several hundred miles of use.
Most people are creatures of habit, so while driving conditions vary, my own experience yields a very consistent average fuel consumption in all my vehicles day to day and week to week. So 1, 2 or 3 mpg increase is generally consistently measurable in long term averaging.
Other than cost, I see no down side. All of them report reduced noise, from lash adjuster noises to other mechanical noises. So I think any of the three solutions would work for the BBQ Tick or Type Writer Tick assuming it's cause is the common big end side to side clearances and not something more serious.
So we have Cera Tec, TiboTEX and Archoil all of which are great solutions. I may try Cera Tec in my Prius C and TriboTEX in my Mustang GT and see how that goes. Amazon carries all three I believe. Also note many people report a very slight increase in oil pressure, due to better sealing, which would also affect mechanical noise.
The BBQ Tick generally disappears once you get past around 2,500 RPM in most GT's that have it. So slight increase in pressure at a given RPM may create more a cushion for the bottom end and that may be the primary reason for the noise reduction, at least that's my current theory.
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