Base GT track day limits

[WCRookie99]

The one other thing that concerns me though is the mention of the master cylinder failing. I don't see that mentioned as much, but obviously that would be a big problem. But why does this happen? It's disturbing to think that could be an issue with a new car, it has to be able to withstand plenty of panic stops in its lifetime. Is it the heat from the left front brake?

Don't worry about the master cylinder failing. You're fine, it was either written poorly and/or taken out of context. Heat from the left Brake is not an issue either.

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[smithhead]

Don't worry about the master cylinder failing. You're fine, it was either written poorly and/or taken out of context. Heat from the left Brake is not an issue either.

Ok thanks!

 

[Fastoldman]

Going to Watkins Glen, just a few quick thoughts ;
1. Have you already changed your Brake Fluid over to a really good DOT 4 ( say , like Motul 600)?
2. How many miles on the car --- do other fluids need changing?
3. You do have a SA2010 or newer Helmet for the track also.

The last one I was asking about because we would have guys show up at the track with a MA2010 or new helmet ( motorcycle ) and they are not legal for our track events ( true with most groups ). We had loaners but often there are not any. Just a quick question to ask and you will have fun at this legendary road course!

 

[Marsalad]

Going to Watkins Glen, just a few quick thoughts ;
1. Have you already changed your Brake Fluid over to a really good DOT 4 ( say , like Motul 600)?
2. How many miles on the car --- do other fluids need changing?
3. You do have a SA2010 or newer Helmet for the track also.

The last one I was asking about because we would have guys show up at the track with a MA2010 or new helmet ( motorcycle ) and they are not legal for our track events ( true with most groups ). We had loaners but often there are not any. Just a quick question to ask and you will have fun at this legendary road course!

Thank you for the response.

I have not yet changed the brake fluid but I plan to.
The car currently has 4500 miles. I expect to add a couple thousand more before any track days are scheduled in my area. The car will at least have fresh engine oil and probably new transmission and differential fluid as well. The tires are Michelin PS4’s which have less than 500 miles of use at this time, so I figure they will have 2500-3000 miles of street use by the time I participate in any track events.
I do not yet have a proper helmet but understand the rules. I used to ride motorcycles and was a bit of a helmet snob in that I would only wear higher end Arai models like the Corsair. After looking at recent prices I may have to lower my expectations.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

I’m saddened that I bought such a terrible track car according to WRC! LOL…

My base Gt is set up to comfortably commute to work or haul the kiddos. But strap on a helmet and I can beat the tar out of it repeatedly for 20 minute sessions in 90F+ ambient.

All I’ve done is remote coolers, big radiator, hood vents, pp1 brembos/MC with race pads and titanium shims, spring/shock combo, and some 200tw 305s. I’m a stones throw from Mach 1 HP performance at a sub PP1 price.

I’d argue a base Gt may be one of the more ideal economical multipurpose track cars if you need 1 car that does it all.

 

[PaddyPrix]

I read through a bunch of this, and as a Base GT owner, here's my .02, hell, I'll even go up to a dime. This is all entirely my findings, coming from a salvage car with an unknown past, that was converted into a full time race car.

The stock base GT brakes suck, very much echoing everybody else here. The stock brakes might be okay, and you can go spend a ton of money trying to get the absolute best, but the stock system was not designed for track duty, especially with the rotor that creates something of an echo chamber, making the air hotter, and hotter, and ... as it can't leave. There is a possibility that you're not yet fast enough of hard enough on it to notice, or, perhaps your course isn't high speed enough or with enough hard stops which might mask the issue, but it's potentially a matter of time. I found out on my 3rd or 4th lap at Auto Club Speedway, a brutal test as you're constantly going from like 120-40 every 20-30 seconds. I was fortunate that I stayed calm, aware of my surroundings, and kept good car balance while I was pumping and e-braking.



Not much you can do when this happens, not everybody is so lucky.

Back to the story, M-2300-V is the Ford Front PP brake upgrade kit, or honest, if you put in a 2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt into something like Tasca's parts site, you can gather up all of the parts you need to assemble it yourself. You'll need the two calipers, the two rotor blanks, two brake hoses, and two brake pads. The blanks are actually really good, just really heavy, and if you're just starting off, they'll take you quite far.

Those brakes alone don't do it, as the stock fluid is also inadequate for track use, something like a Motul RBF 600 are not too terribly expensive, and are a huge upgrade over stock fluid. Get something like a turkey baster and suck the old stuff out of the reservoir, pour in the new stuff, and for your first time, get like 3-4 bottles so you can feel sure that you've cycled all the new stuff in and through.

The PP, Bullitt, and M1 have slightly different front control arms (illustration) that their special lower tray throws air to, and those plates direct it to the caliper and out (scoop n' swoop). You might be just fine without it.

I ended up changing out the Brake Booster and the Master Cylinder to the PP2 version. If you dig through the part numbers, you'll notice that the base GT and Shelby GT350 share the same part number, but the PP1/Automatic is another (2 nips) and the PP2/Manual is another (3 nips). There's a reason that Ford gave them their own part numbers different than the Shelby GT350, and another why there's different Boosters, so I went with those. People can say that they're not important and they don't do anything, but I beg to differ, and perhaps again, perhaps they're not going fast enough, or at a course that doesn't need it, but I did, and I almost cried tears of joy as my brakes worked to what I had been expecting all along. MC and BB Part Numbs -- TL; DR: The PP unit is bigger

With the stock 3.55 rear end, I only ever overheated/limp mode on my second track day, because I left it in sport mode. When you get really going, the car will apply the brakes in an attempt to keep the car level and not throw it around. Solution for that is simply to use Track mode and disable Advance Trac, but at that time you're on your own. Pay attention to your butt steer and on the hard turns, where it's going to pull some of that power back because it fears a spin, and take note, those are the places you need to be careful on, if you go in all stupid and punch it, it's going completely sideways.

With just that, you're honestly pretty solid. The 15-17 make less power, but have a much better (and weaker) transmission with gear ratios that are near identical to the TR-3160 in the Shelby GT350. The 18+ makes more power, but the transmission is terribly geared for road racing with the gears so far apart, on 3.55's 3rd goes to 120, 4th goes to 160, and unless you're on e85, anywhere out of the powerband is a bad place to be.

Speaking of powerband, if you have plentiful and quality e85, perhaps think about a tune. I'm at 470rwhp with just longtubes and e85 and that's slightly more than a GT350 dynos. I'm also using the stock airbox, but it's not much higher with a CAI getting perhaps another 10, porting the intake and tb only get you another 5, which really isn't worth the money for it on a hp/cost basis. Other than that, cams and stroking are your only other real option, but 500rwhp is a lot on these. Against ZR1, ZL1 1L3, GT3/4 Cup/RS, you'll be a 3700# Miata, pulling all of them in on the turns.

I might not be the fastest base GT there is, but I'm pretty darn certain that I am the cheapest, building my ST2/TT2 car for under $20k, which included the car. A little bargaining, a little stripping, and honestly, the M6G/TMO parts forum were how it all happened for me, and it can happen for you, a wealth of information here if you look in the right places.

 

[smithhead]

I read through a bunch of this, and as a Base GT owner, here's my .02, hell, I'll even go up to a dime. ...

Thanks for all the info.

It does appear that the 2021 brake redesign helps quite a bit, but of course it's still not close to the PP upgrade.

 

[smithhead]

My base Gt is set up to comfortably commute to work or haul the kiddos. But strap on a helmet and I can beat the tar out of it repeatedly for 20 minute sessions in 90F+ ambient.

All I’ve done is remote coolers, big radiator, hood vents, pp1 brembos/MC with race pads and titanium shims, spring/shock combo, and some 200tw 305s. I’m a stones throw from Mach 1 HP performance at a sub PP1 price.

I’d argue a base Gt may be one of the more ideal economical multipurpose track cars if you need 1 car that does it all.

Thanks!

 

[EFI]

I'll argue, the Base Mustang GT requires significant upgrades to make it safe/last, that you're better off selling it and buying something else.

I bought my base 2020 GT for 33k brand new and I have $2500 in cooling (radiator, diff and oil cooler) and brake upgrades (GT350R calipers, rotors, pads and SRF fluid).

Can you let me know what's a faster, safer and more reliable track car for $35k new? I'll go buy it tomorrow because I can probably get more than that for my car and can pocket the rest + have a faster car.

 

[WCRookie99]

I bought my base 2020 GT for 33k brand new and I have $2500 in cooling (radiator, diff and oil cooler) and brake upgrades (GT350R calipers, rotors, pads and SRF fluid).

Can you let me know what's a faster, safer and more reliable track car for $35k new? I'll go buy it tomorrow because I can probably get more than that for my car and can pocket the rest + have a faster car.

Please add Torsen, Tremec, No lift shift, auto blip, Aero, 305/315's track capable tires, 10.5/11in wheels, springs, GT350 intake, sway bars front/rear, master cylinder (read post #67 above) should I go on.

and read these three posts:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/repeat-thread-delete-please.173521/
#4 and #6

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...o-lightning-lap-2022-i-am-blown-away😳.173531/


https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/stock-2021-mach-1-vs-stock-2021-gt.160862/

Being safe on the track, with reliability and speed, cost $$$ and being cheap doesn't impress me one bit. Sunday drives are one thing, driving at speed is another.

One last thing:
1. Go to the the GT500 thread and it's the best track car.
2. Go to the the GT350 thread and it's the best track car.
3. Go to the the Mach 1 thread and it's the best track car.
4. Now on the Road Racing thread the Base GT is the best.

Love it!

 

[NeverSatisfied]

I'm loving this as well. I corrected your statement...

Being safe on the track, with reliability and speed, cost $$$ and being cheap doesn't impress me one bit. Sunday drives are one thing, driving at speed is another.

One last thing:
1. Go to the the GT500 thread and it's the best track car.
2. Go to the the GT350 thread and it's the best track car.
3. Go to the the Mach 1 thread and it's the best track car.
4. Now on the Road Racing thread the Stock GT is the most economical of the bunch and can hang with a few upgrades.

Love it!

I had the parts lying around from previous cars, but mine's probably got $5-6K in upgrades. I'm still under 40K all in.

I can't think of another new car at this price point that can haul 2 kiddos with daily driver usefulness and be treated like a rented mule at the track at this performance level? Maybe there's still deals on a SS1LE but that'd be about it? GR86 with upgrades.. maybe?

 

[EFI]

$2,000 for all of the above new parts? Please let me know where as I'll buy 20x and resell them. Everyone has an opinion and so do I, thanks for posting yours.

$380 Mishimoto radiator on BF sale
$460 Mishimoto oil cooler on BF sale
$520 custom diff cooler
$600 R calipers
$75 Powerstop Z26 pads
$400 rotors
$30 fluid

Please add Torsen, Tremec, No lift shift, auto blip, Aero, 305/315's track capable tires, 10.5/11in wheels, springs, GT350 intake, sway bars front/rear, master cylinder (read post #67 above) should I go on.

Why do you need all that to be safe and reliable? And if you you need NLS and autoblip to be fast, maybe you shouldn't be tracking your car.

I never said it was the best, but for the money it's tough to beat. A $33k base GT with $30k in mods is going safer, faster and more reliable than your stock M1 for the same price.

Again, I'm asking what you think is a faster, safer and more reliable car for $35k new. And honestly, not sure why you're even in this thread. People are talking about GTs, why don't you go troll the M1 forum. Not everyone has unlimited money to spend on track cars and need to set lap records everywhere they go.

 

[WCRookie99]

And honestly, not sure why you're even in this thread.

Back to topic, the stock base GT is a marginal track car and limits will be reached quickly as #67 video proves.

Do what you want.

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