Are long tube headers worth it ?

[ORRadtech]

I can turn this around. What credentials do you have?

As for Ed, every car that he designed headers for went faster on the track. Not some theoretical BS.

Oh, I see, the classic deflection tactic when the questions become difficult....So now it's the headers that Ed designed and not you?

And since you can't talk science and math, it's suddenly theoretical?

50 weight oil thread, here we come....

MB

Another sidestep by accusing them of deflection...nice!

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[RAVAGE88]

LOL yah you are, you're the one here pushing the hardest. You're the one spear heading the pissing contest. You're the one that looks like the grump here... Man this thread makes it feel like 2005 all over again! Back when forum bickering was cool!

Nope, not at all emotional, hence the lack of detail or any convictive statements from me, other than challenging those with misled, arrogant convictions that attack differing opinions. All the presumptions about what could Kook's possibly have been thinking to working as a floor sweeper instead of doing the actual designs as was stated, but hey, it is the internet.

And, maybe you're right, maybe I'm the grump, but not at all the intention. In actuality, the intention is to provoke a deeper level of technical thinking outside those with a high post count that, through forum tenure are thought to be the seat of all knowledge about anything from light bulbs to rocket engines....If some aren't willing or capable of a deeper level of technical thinking and resolve a topic to what happened in the 70's with cutting off cats, not really my problem. But it's cool that one can get a mostly unpaid job as a crew chief, but at the same time, one gets what one pays for.

Have a great day....

MB

 

[Oakley]

installing headers used to give you a lot of benefits but modern manifolds are so efficient you're undertaking a lot more cost, worse packaging, and risk of complications (bad install, bolts backing out, future exhaust leaks etc) for a little more power and a lot more engine noise.

for that reason i wouldn't even consider them.

 

[GregO]

I just started a mostly unpaid job as crew chief on a Legends race car. The headers on this thing suck. Maybe I will get to test some more.

That sounds fun.
Those kind of “Favor Bank” arrangements can really work out well for everyone.

 

[Zent]

No. And with modern cars you NEED a tune with any performance “upgrade” you do including a simple axelback otherwise it won’t run right and you’ll usually be losing performance. And a canned tune from American muscle won’t cut it, you need to go to a professional dyno shop and even that can be hit or miss.

 

[Jasonb543]

No. And with modern cars you NEED a tune with any performance “upgrade” you do including a simple axelback otherwise it won’t run right and you’ll usually be losing performance. And a canned tune from American muscle won’t cut it, you need to go to a professional dyno shop and even that can be hit or miss.

This is the type of fake news we need to stop spreading….
Modern cars are far more capable with trims to commanded lambda than old school stuff.

We now have 2024s picking up 20 rwhp on E30 and 35-40rwhp just by installing longtubes ON THE STOCK TUNE.

 

[K4fxd]

Main reason old school headers made so much more power is most cars were jetted rich from the factory. Add headers and the A/F was closer to best along with better breathing.

That sounds fun.

I'm having a blast. Lots of work as the car was not even close to being competitive.

I have the car pretty much in order, now I need to work on the nut behind the wheel.

Nope, not at all emotional, hence the lack of detail or any convictive statements from me,

I know your type well. You think you are the smartest guy in the room and think being aloof makes you look clever.

 

[GregO]

We now have 2024s picking up 20 rwhp on E30 and 35-40rwhp just by installing longtubes ON THE STOCK TUNE.

I’d attribute the header HP gains you’re referencing come from the removal of newer cats that have GPF.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I know your type well. You think you are the smartest guy in the room and think being aloof makes you look clever.

Aaahhh, c'mon, Ed, what's the matter? Not accustomed to being called out for the authoritative but intellectually empty way you shut people down and then not able to represent a substantive fact basis when someone steps up to challenge you?

You're the one that wrote all the contradictions, all I did was shine light on it after your steam roller response to the Lethal Steve guy. However, you were able to represent, that you really don't know. But like I've said at least twice already, you do you.

G'nite, Ed.

MB

 

[WildHorse]

I was somewhat vague in that statement you quoted.
My point being with all the modern software tools available and lessons learned over many decades of header development, I believe that exhaust header R&D labor hours have been reduced significantly.

CAD design doesn't always work. He wanted the best header for the coyote, so he decided to build/test himself. Then refined it for gen2's which carried over to the gen3.

 

[K4fxd]

CAD design doesn't always work. He wanted the best header for the coyote, so he decided to build/test himself.

This was my understanding too.

 

[K4fxd]

G'nite, Ed.

Again thanks for the compliment, I am not Ed Henneman (SP?)

You must be Ernest T Bass

 

[GregO]

CAD design doesn't always work. He wanted the best header for the coyote, so he decided to build/test himself. Then refined it for gen2's which carried over to the gen3.

CAD wasn’t on my mind. Being you mentioned CAD, exporting files does expedite things.
Did the OEM header carry over to the Gen4 ?

 

[RAVAGE88]

Again thanks for the compliment, I am not Ed Henneman (SP?)

You must be Ernest T Bass

Maybe I am, Ed....mmaaayyybe I am.

Ernest T. Bass is a loud, wild, and rowdy hillbilly with a scruffy, unkempt appearance, a maniacal laugh, and a penchant for troublemaking. (for those too young to know, compliments of Wikipedia)

So, I guess it only took a loud and rowdy hillbilly and not the smartest guy in the room....

G'nite, Ed.

MB

 

[K4fxd]

Good comeback, good night "Mr Ed"

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