Another blown engine thread

[jamesb1986]

Sorry to hear about this, I'm going through a lengthy repair process too. Originally, the dealer said "engine replacement" but now they're checking a bunch of other things. I got an ESP from Zurich as additional "comprehensive" coverage for when the bumper-to-bumper expires in a few months. I suspect if I ever tried to claim an engine they would deny it too, but my contract has the VIN and GT350, so we'll see if it ever comes to that... I know people hate the ESPs, but with all the expensive shit in cars these days, including electrical shit I can't fix, I figure one A/C compressor will make the ESP worthwhile.

Just make sure you can verify all maintenance (even if you bought it used) as thats a common out for the warranty company to deny things.

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[jamesb1986]

UPDATE:

The warranty company did indeed try to deny the engine replacement, their reason was 'this car is on our excluded vehicles list'.

Obviously this was crap and they were trying to get out of it as they had my VIN and it says the type of car (and at no point from quote to purchase was an excluded vehicle list ever mentioned) so I had my lawyer send them a letter and things picked back up this week. They have restarted the claim and went ahead with a tear down to the point of failure, I should hear back next week that the initial reason for the engine going, given by the dealer, is indeed confirmed and the replacement can go ahead (they might need to send their own inspector to verify).

I have already been through any potential other reasons they might try to deny the claim with my lawyer and we are prepared for whatever reason they throw at us. FIngers crossed this now is sorted and I can move on and get the car back!

 

[WItoTX]

UPDATE:

The warranty company did indeed try to deny the engine replacement, their reason was 'this car is on our excluded vehicles list'.

Obviously this was crap and they were trying to get out of it as they had my VIN and it says the type of car (and at no point from quote to purchase was an excluded vehicle list ever mentioned) so I had my lawyer send them a letter and things picked back up this week. They have restarted the claim and went ahead with a tear down to the point of failure, I should hear back next week that the initial reason for the engine going, given by the dealer, is indeed confirmed and the replacement can go ahead (they might need to send their own inspector to verify).

I have already been through any potential other reasons they might try to deny the claim with my lawyer and we are prepared for whatever reason they throw at us. FIngers crossed this now is sorted and I can move on and get the car back!

Got to love they threw in the "excluded vehicle" crap. When I was reading up on extended warranties, I ran into this from several carriers. Some actually excluded the engine, or had a clause that said we will cover everything in the engine, except if oil starvation is the cause.

I wonder how many folks buy them without reading what they are actually buying.

 

[jamesb1986]

Got to love they threw in the "excluded vehicle" crap. When I was reading up on extended warranties, I ran into this from several carriers. Some actually excluded the engine, or had a clause that said we will cover everything in the engine, except if oil starvation is the cause.

I wonder how many folks buy them without reading what they are actually buying.

Its disgusting really - I'm someone familiar with these contracts and have a good lawyer but there must be so many people without these things who really do get screwed over. At the end of the day if you read the contract and its exclusions fully and it meets your requirements (and you can prove you meet your requirements for the contract) then its simply an issue of contract law and you unfortunately have to be willing and able to pursue that.

All in all the cost of the warranty and legal fees will amount to about $4k (that should also tell you its clear the warranty company didn't price things properly but that's their problem not mine and clearly why they tried hard to get out of it). In my case and given that I purchased the warranty for basically this one potential outcome, and was willing to put in a bit of my own cash to get such a claim resolved, its worked out as planned. The total bill will be close to $28k and I put in $4k to get there - I went into this car knowing it was at least a possibility.

 

[honeybadger]

Its disgusting really - I'm someone familiar with these contracts and have a good lawyer but there must be so many people without these things who really do get screwed over. At the end of the day if you read the contract and its exclusions fully and it meets your requirements (and you can prove you meet your requirements for the contract) then its simply an issue of contract law and you unfortunately have to be willing and able to pursue that.

All in all the cost of the warranty and legal fees will amount to about $4k (that should also tell you its clear the warranty company didn't price things properly but that's their problem not mine and clearly why they tried hard to get out of it). In my case and given that I purchased the warranty for basically this one potential outcome, and was willing to put in a bit of my own cash to get such a claim resolved, its worked out as planned. The total bill will be close to $28k and I put in $4k to get there - I went into this car knowing it was at least a possibility.

Do you have a strong indication Ford can force the warranty company to replace the entire engine vs. just rebuilding it?

 

[Point45]

What? I thought they were the best.




Still wearing the brockabrella hat he gave me!

Grew up watching those commercials so I gave them a call when shopping for my gt350.

Quoted me 25k over sticker and said it as if he was doing me a personal favor. This was in the middle of all the lock down crap too when nothing was moving.

 

[jamesb1986]

Do you have a strong indication Ford can force the warranty company to replace the entire engine vs. just rebuilding it?

Its out of manufacturer warranty being sold at the end of 2016 as a 2017 model as far as I can tell - are you aware if Ford would still get involved if asked?

As far as I'm aware the dealership were pushing this as needing an engine replacement rather than a rebuild - at least at this point. I don't expect this to change based on my conversations with them but I guess there is still a chance things change if an additional inspector gets involved. As I understand things the inspectors from warranty companies generally don't try to change mechanics opinions and rather just document findings on behalf of the warranty company.

 

[coz0502]

Its disgusting really - I'm someone familiar with these contracts and have a good lawyer but there must be so many people without these things who really do get screwed over. At the end of the day if you read the contract and its exclusions fully and it meets your requirements (and you can prove you meet your requirements for the contract) then its simply an issue of contract law and you unfortunately have to be willing and able to pursue that.

All in all the cost of the warranty and legal fees will amount to about $4k (that should also tell you its clear the warranty company didn't price things properly but that's their problem not mine and clearly why they tried hard to get out of it). In my case and given that I purchased the warranty for basically this one potential outcome, and was willing to put in a bit of my own cash to get such a claim resolved, its worked out as planned. The total bill will be close to $28k and I put in $4k to get there - I went into this car knowing it was at least a possibility.

This is why many people have a strong distaste for insurance companies, myself included. They are great while you pay the premiums but the minute you make a claim it's always a hassle. There should be significant fines involved when insurance companies pull this crap in order to discourage future occurrences and as a warning to other companies.

I saw an article about a couple who's home was damaged by Hurricane Ian and we're dropped by their insurance provider days before. Which is illegal here. If the state of Florida fined them out of business I would have no problem with it.

 

[honeybadger]

Its out of manufacturer warranty being sold at the end of 2016 as a 2017 model as far as I can tell - are you aware if Ford would still get involved if asked?

As far as I'm aware the dealership were pushing this as needing an engine replacement rather than a rebuild - at least at this point. I don't expect this to change based on my conversations with them but I guess there is still a chance things change if an additional inspector gets involved. As I understand things the inspectors from warranty companies generally don't try to change mechanics opinions and rather just document findings on behalf of the warranty company.

Good to hear that's the case. I had wondered once warranties start to run, how things would evolve. I can't imagine anyone without a warranty is going to shell out $28k, so I've wondered if Ford is going to change their policies a bit.I hadn't even thought about 3-party warranties until your post popped up.

Hopefully you're taken care of!

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Its disgusting really - I'm someone familiar with these contracts and have a good lawyer but there must be so many people without these things who really do get screwed over. At the end of the day if you read the contract and its exclusions fully and it meets your requirements (and you can prove you meet your requirements for the contract) then its simply an issue of contract law and you unfortunately have to be willing and able to pursue that.

All in all the cost of the warranty and legal fees will amount to about $4k (that should also tell you its clear the warranty company didn't price things properly but that's their problem not mine and clearly why they tried hard to get out of it). In my case and given that I purchased the warranty for basically this one potential outcome, and was willing to put in a bit of my own cash to get such a claim resolved, its worked out as planned. The total bill will be close to $28k and I put in $4k to get there - I went into this car knowing it was at least a possibility.

Smart, well prepared customer. Has a lawyer.
Sucks to be the insurance company.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here reading your follow-up and grinning now. ;-)

 

[WItoTX]

Its disgusting really - I'm someone familiar with these contracts and have a good lawyer but there must be so many people without these things who really do get screwed over. At the end of the day if you read the contract and its exclusions fully and it meets your requirements (and you can prove you meet your requirements for the contract) then its simply an issue of contract law and you unfortunately have to be willing and able to pursue that.

All in all the cost of the warranty and legal fees will amount to about $4k (that should also tell you its clear the warranty company didn't price things properly but that's their problem not mine and clearly why they tried hard to get out of it). In my case and given that I purchased the warranty for basically this one potential outcome, and was willing to put in a bit of my own cash to get such a claim resolved, its worked out as planned. The total bill will be close to $28k and I put in $4k to get there - I went into this car knowing it was at least a possibility.

Agreed. If you paid extra for the third party, plus an attorney, it's still far cheaper than the entirely new motor. As an owner, my biggest worry would be a tech being swayed by the insurance company to just replace a head, or a single cam, or the crank. Something stupid that is not going to solve the problem.

I am following your story closely, actually have it bookmarked as a reference. Definitely appreciate you sharing the details.

 

[RocketGuy3]

I purchased an 8 year Ford extended warranty through flood ford which has been confirmed as a "legit" resource. My reasoning is that... #1- I plan on keeping this car for a long time #2- the cost of the warranty vs the potential repairs (including engine swap) would be more that worth it. #3- it gives me a peace of mind in case my financial situation changes. Another bonus is that you can transfer the warranty to another owner if I sell and I can cancel at any time and receive back the pro-rated portion of the initial premium. I sold computers and other electronics at a retail store many moons ago and I always knew whether an extended warranty made sense or not.

Yeah, peace of mind is very difficult to put a price on, and that alone can make even a shitty warranty worthwhile to some people. Being an OEM warranty probably makes the decision a bit easier to justify as well, depending on price at least.

Looks like it worked out for the OP, though, even if with a bit more hassle than he was hoping for. Glad to hear it!

 

[jamesb1986]

UPDATE:

Warranty company insisted on the additional tear down and to have their own inspector attend to document the work and overall situation. This work was done and the report filed with the warranty company - it took them about 4 hours after the report was filed to then insist they want additional tear down (this would be the third stage of tear down completed) to verify if the issue was a valve seal. This additional work apparently requires the block to be sent to a machine shop and this could cost over $1k and 6-12 weeks (depending on shop and timing etc).

Apparently the dealership has a master tech working on this that handles these cars regularly and this tech strongly believes the valve seal failing was indeed the cause (as was originally thought by me and the tech at the initial analysis a month ago). Given the previous in depth review of the warranty contract by myself and a lawyer we believe they are trying to get to a point where they can say with certainty, and prove so off the back of the machine shops work, that its the valve seal, they will then claim that valve seals are a 'wear and tear' item and then try to deny on that basis. It was predicted they would do this weeks ago and as I had mentioned in an earlier post I was prepared for this eventuality.

The issue the warranty company will have is that wear and tear is indeed excluded but NOT if the same covered part(s) of the engine failed due to sudden and unforeseen failure or manufacturer defect. Its clear that on a 2017 car with only 15k miles that it cannot reasonably be argued that this is simple wear and tear - its clearly an unforeseen and early failure or manufacturer defect from Ford (the other Ford warranty claims being paid out for similar instances with these cars also helps me here as a form of precedent - many of which are widely documented).

The next step is to explain all this to the warranty company and if they insist on proceeding on this new basis then we will have them submit their requests and issues in writing and then respond in writing with the legal argument roughly outlined above. After that its court or possibly arbitration and that doesn't bode well for the warranty company.

I will continue to keep you posted.

 

[DopamineQuest]

UPDATE:

Warranty company insisted on the additional tear down and to have their own inspector attend to document the work and overall situation. This work was done and the report filed with the warranty company - it took them about 4 hours after the report was filed to then insist they want additional tear down (this would be the third stage of tear down completed) to verify if the issue was a valve seal. This additional work apparently requires the block to be sent to a machine shop and this could cost over $1k and 6-12 weeks (depending on shop and timing etc).

Apparently the dealership has a master tech working on this that handles these cars regularly and this tech strongly believes the valve seal failing was indeed the cause (as was originally thought by me and the tech at the initial analysis a month ago). Given the previous in depth review of the warranty contract by myself and a lawyer we believe they are trying to get to a point where they can say with certainty, and prove so off the back of the machine shops work, that its the valve seal, they will then claim that valve seals are a 'wear and tear' item and then try to deny on that basis. It was predicted they would do this weeks ago and as I had mentioned in an earlier post I was prepared for this eventuality.

The issue the warranty company will have is that wear and tear is indeed excluded but NOT if the same covered part(s) of the engine failed due to sudden and unforeseen failure or manufacturer defect. Its clear that on a 2017 car with only 15k miles that it cannot reasonably be argued that this is simple wear and tear - its clearly an unforeseen and early failure or manufacturer defect from Ford (the other Ford warranty claims being paid out for similar instances with these cars also helps me here as a form of precedent - many of which are widely documented).

The next step is to explain all this to the warranty company and if they insist on proceeding on this new basis then we will have them submit their requests and issues in writing and then respond in writing with the legal argument roughly outlined above. After that its court or possibly arbitration and that doesn't bode well for the warranty company.

I will continue to keep you posted.

Sounds like a nightmare. Good luck going forward.

 

[stanglife]

This really sheds light on 3rd party (or in many cases, any extended) warranties.

I've always said - the odds are in their favor, otherwise, there would be no warranty company. It is simply an unregulated insurance policy in which you are bound by the contract associated with it. In that contract you will mostly find limits of liability, exclusions and other loopholes to help limit the insurance(warranty) company's exposure.

These policies are sold in a way that makes the purchaser feel like the warranty company is helping to protect them when in fact, their main function is to avoid payout at almost any cost.

Just look how the warranty company is going through so many twists and turns to avoid payout here - it's not their first rodeo. Hope the OP can stick it to them.

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