ADM Hell! Ford!!!!

[Strokerswild]

Great. So we can close this thread now? If that is what you wish, then hit the report button and ask to do so. These ADM threads can get very ugly. Ive never seen one end well.

It's OK. He's in the anger phase, and will eventually move to acceptance.

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[Houston Kid]

Great. So we can close this thread now? If that is what you wish, then hit the report button and ask to do so. These ADM threads can get very ugly. Ive never seen one end well.

I thought you were out 3 pages ago??

LOL.

Poke bear here!!!!!

 

[Angrey]

I'm also of the "don't buy it" club, but my overarching point is, don't be mad at dealerships. It's Ford that creates these ADM opportunities with the obscure builds.

Covid and chips, that's a different story, but if you're going to get upset, Ford is the culprit, not the evil dealership.

No one gets mad when someone sells their extremely rare vintage car at auction for a zillion dollars. You sell the item for what the market demand says it will sell for against the market supply.

 

[theruleslawyer]

Prosecuting what? Nothing illegal is being done.

Maybe. A lot of states have anti price gouging laws. Raising transportation prices during a pandemic might trigger some of them depending on how broadly they are worded.

Either way a AG doesn’t actually have to win the case, merely making a legal defense likely can change the profitability equation

 

[Angrey]

Maybe. A lot of states have anti price gouging laws. Raising transportation prices during a pandemic might trigger some of them depending on how broadly they are worded.

Either way a AG doesn’t actually have to win the case, merely making a legal defense likely can change the profitability equation

As a resident of Florida, let me tell you why price gouging laws are stupid.

1) Price controls create conditions where the people that need something the most (and are willing to pay extra for their additional need) don't always end up with what they need. So while a store might have to sell water and plywood or insulin for the same price facing an impending hurricane, those people that TRULY need those items often can't purchase them because shelves are barren, people who may not even need those items go out and purchase them and buy up all the supplies.

2) Price controls extend the supply disruption by eliminating the free market incentive for others to enter the market. When a hurricane comes, vendors and stores are less likely to redirect additional supplies from across the nation (at additional transportation expense) because why should they? There's nothing in it for them. Under free market conditions, truckloads of generators and plywood would come pouring into the state (if you can sell your generator at twice the normal cost, now it makes sense to pay for dedicated freight to take them to FL to sell). once the supply exceeds the need, prices naturally fall back to pre-crisis level.

3) Price gouging laws simply create black markets, where citizens are more likely to be naked from other legal protections and remedies.

So if your mother has medication that needs to be refrigerated and you need to buy a generator, you're shit out of luck because they're all gone and no one is in a rush to bring more (even though you'd gladly VOLUNTARILY pay significantly more than normal prices for one). If vendors can charge rates according to demand and supply, now there are companies that are incentivized to bring additional inventories as quickly as possible to market, to take advantage of the higher sales.

Price controls and fixing don't work. They create other unintended (often worse) consequences.

 

[shogun32]

I have received at least one text message each day this week from the same dealer to the tune of "have you changed your mind about buying our Jeep?"

same with Camaro. I told them flat-out 4% below invoice or don't call me. Calls and texts for several days, "when can I put you down to complete the purchase?" "so, you're going to take my offer"? "no". after about the 3rd call I asked them to put the sales manager on the line, asked him directly if he was going to take my offer. He said no. So I asked him why does he hire morons who pester customers who have very clearly specified their offers. He mumbled something unintelligible. I told them they could F off for good. click.

 

[Hells Fury]

same with Camaro. I told them flat-out 4% below invoice or don't call me. Calls and texts for several days, "when can I put you down to complete the purchase?" "so, you're going to take my offer"? "no". after about the 3rd call I asked them to put the sales manager on the line, asked him directly if he was going to take my offer. He said no. So I asked him why does he hire morons who pester customers who have very clearly specified their offers. He mumbled something unintelligible. I told them they could F off for good. click.

 

[IPOGT]

I thought you were out 3 pages ago??

LOL.

Poke bear here!!!!!

I'll bet you Tom is probably a nice guy if you met him. Forums make people act weird.

 

[Strokerswild]

No one gets mad when someone sells their extremely rare vintage car at auction for a zillion dollars. You sell the item for what the market demand says it will sell for against the market supply.

Slightly different scenario than ADMs on a late model GT500, but I understand your angle to a degree...

More to that point, you get mad because every jerkoff with a totally rusted out, gutted '68 fastback missing fenders and doors sitting in their grove thinks they have gold because the Bullitt car brought millions at auction.

 

[Epiphany]

Why not just let people check the option boxes like they used to be able to, without having to have "allocations" etc? At the current price point (and annual Mustang sales figures) I don't think it'd be likely that Ford would have so many orders that they would exceed the Niche Line capacity. So if one dealer has a plethora of orders, so be it. Ford could cut off orders (like they have been doing) if they find they can't meet demand.

There would be a shitload of small town dealers selling quite a few of these that otherwise would have only gotten one allocation. Limit stock orders to one if you have to ensure that customer orders are given preference.

 

[Thomas]

In my mind this argument comes down to intent and the fact that the GT500 is a luxury good, not an essential item so by consensus its not profiteering.

Price gouging? Possibly but you have to assume you know the dealers intent which is not behavior worth engaging in.

In this aspect I agree with Tom. If people pay it...I can't begrudge the dealer doing it too much. I'd be ecstatic to sell at that large of a profit if someone made me the offer on mine. I'm not going to judge the dealers intent, situation or reasoning and without that info I cannot make a call on the general morality of selling what is a currently rare luxury good that no one needs for a higher profit. The Gm might be a great guy who is paying all his employees more out of those profits during a high inflation period. Who knows. Or, maybe they are scumbags who pocket it all and gyp their salesmen. I'm not God so I'm not making that call.

This being said I'm not a Capitalism as a belief system type of person either.

If this was a company putting the squeeze on people who needed basic necessities or critical infrastructure it would be very different.

 

[shogun32]

I'd be ecstatic to sell at that large of a profit if someone made me the offer on mine.

no argument. But private party sales no matter how unreasonable do not DIRECTLY impugne the reputation of the manufacturer - eg Ford. Dealer conduct DOES.

So while selling for as high as they can is a valid and acceptable practice in the abstract, it's no longer defensible if it pisses off your current and future customers and impacts your future revenue stream. The dealer itself doesn't give a damn if it's business suffers in the short or intermediate term. But Ford itself does because they get tarnished with the same brush.

If No-Name scumbag car dealer with no brand association wants to take advantage of the market distortion, have at it. It's when you slap 'Ford' on the façade and sign the dealer agreement when the rules of engagment and acceptable behavior come into play.

 

[Tomster]

In my mind this argument comes down to intent and the fact that the GT500 is a luxury good, not an essential item so by consensus its not profiteering.

Price gouging? Possibly but you have to assume you know the dealers intent which is not behavior worth engaging in.

In this aspect I agree with Tom. If people pay it...I can't begrudge the dealer doing it too much. I'd be ecstatic to sell at that large of a profit if someone made me the offer on mine. I'm not going to judge the dealers intent, situation or reasoning and without that info I cannot make a call on the general morality of selling what is a currently rare luxury good that no one needs for a higher profit. The Gm might be a great guy who is paying all his employees more out of those profits during a high inflation period. Who knows. Or, maybe they are scumbags who pocket it all and gyp their salesmen. I'm not God so I'm not making that call.

This being said I'm not a Capitalism as a belief system type of person either.

If this was a company putting the squeeze on people who needed basic necessities or critical infrastructure it would be very different.

Very well said. I was about to say the same thing, but as ICE said, I was supposed to be out on page 3.....

 

[IPOGT]

I’d say that I have empathy for those who are purchasing + ADM on a car for daily/family transportation believing that a business has to have a conscience. On the other hand, no one “needs” a Mach 1 or GT500, so it’s much easier to justify ADM on cars like this, especially since dealers really don’t have much to sell these days.

 

[Thomas]

no argument. But private party sales no matter how unreasonable do not DIRECTLY impugne the reputation of the manufacturer - eg Ford. Dealer conduct DOES.

So while selling for as high as they can is a valid and acceptable practice in the abstract, it's no longer defensible if it pisses off your current and future customers and impacts your future revenue stream. The dealer itself doesn't give a damn if it's business suffers in the short or intermediate term. But Ford itself does because they get tarnished with the same brush.

If No-Name scumbag car dealer with no brand association wants to take advantage of the market distortion, have at it. It's when you slap 'Ford' on the façade and sign the dealer agreement when the rules of engagment and acceptable behavior come into play.

All true, and this underlines a good point. Whether Ford cares or not is reflective of their leaderships true values and not what the marketing department says. Unfortunately, I suspect it would come down to whether the bean counters can quantify if the ADMs are actually resulting in brand destruction and subsequent lost sales. IF so, I could see Ford doing something. Otherwise….again I don’t know the CEO or board personally so I do not know their value…I could see this persisting until new chip fabs come online in the next year or two. It’s a public company, so that’s going to drive decision making at a high level.

If I was another manufacturers an aggressive marketing campaign right now about never selling above MSRP (cough Toyota cough) might be a great way to grab market share, regardless of whether they are doing so out of altruism or simply economics. THAT might get Fords attention.

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