2015 Mustang GT PP vs. 2015 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE

[Devon]

This H2H just got posted to Jalopnik.

Someone's probably said it in these 14 pages I haven't read yet but if the Camaro can outperform and out-fun the S550 in its current almost decade-old iteration, it will be very very interesting to see what it does on the new platform.

Still, if GM doesn't solve the horrible visibility problems the current car has they'll lose a lot of sales.

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[thePill]

This H2H just got posted to Jalopnik.

Someone's probably said it in these 14 pages I haven't read yet but if the Camaro can outperform and out-fun the S550 in its current almost decade-old iteration, it will be very very interesting to see what it does on the new platform.

Still, if GM doesn't solve the horrible visibility problems the current car has they'll lose a lot of sales.

The 6th Gen is definitely doing things differently, I've never seen a refreshed refresh before. I'm interested to see the publics reaction to a new car that looks old.

I don't think we will see Ford chase a Camaro just as you don't see an M3 or 911. They are pretty well established and all three are a force within their classes. Ford is more concerned with the M3/M4, 997, 350Z and so on, as far as the GT is concerned. The Camaro doesn't really have a great showing anywhere, nobody in competition considers a Camaro and few that do are 1LE people.

 

[dabears2322]

Ford can "fix" this. Just release a 460hp Boss.

Boss w/Recaro: $39,995 (1LE w/ Recaro: $39,995)
breakdown-
Base: 32,100
Recaro: 1,595
Boss items: 6,300

For $6,300:
Boss exhaust
Boss engine tune
PP brakes w/ Boss pads & Boss ABS settings
PP radiator
PP 3.73 & LSD
Boss spec shocks & springs
Boss swaybars
Boss front splitter
Boss rear spoiler
Boss hood heat extractors
Premium Radio
Premium Mode switches w/ Boss "Red key"-like settings
if needed to make 460hp, (new) Boss intake manifold (cobra jet style)

Or I would be willing to pay $500-750 more for the performance pack right now if it had
a little stiffer shocks, springs
have the 19x9.5 275 up front
19x10 305 out back.
I think just this alone would beat the 1le or at least tie it and still come in at a better value.

 

[Patio208]

My 2 cents as a guy that has never tracked my car: the numbers are negligible on the track. Furthermore, 0-60 time was a tie and the Mustang won the quarter mile. A hands down victory for the Mustang would've been great but was unlikely. Why all the panic? Worrying about the next gen Camaro is like worrying about the next model refresh, eventually they're coming and they will inevitably best the current car's numbers. Call me crazy but I'm not expecting any astronomical leap in the gen 6 Camaro's performance anyway. Recent history with the Mustang should indicate as much. The S550 is improved in every aspect but the end result was not mind blowing increases in performance or weight loss.

 

[Feeshta]

Well, it's pretty clear which car they like better as a driver's car. It's hard to get over that hideous Camaro interior though, it's just plain awful, especially when a comparably equipped car costs $2k more. You could probably match the Camaro's handling with 2K worth of suspension upgrades, but it's going to be a while before the tuners get a truly sorted package out there I would guess.

 

[rkan]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been very excited about the 2015 s550 mustang. I read rumors of high horsepower numbers, better than boss performance, and all around improvement. When the first tests came out, I was very disappointed in the slower straight line performance specifically. However, even the initial skid pad and handling tests showed very little promise. The 1le is the natural target and competitor for the 2015 gt pp, and ford should have trounced it. Sadly they did not...

People on this thread are coming up with silly arguments to defend their decision to buy the 2015. I don't want to buy bolt ons, and tires, and suspension mods to make the car perform on the level of its main competitor. I want a car that will beat the competition right out of the box. It looks as if I'm not the only one here that thinks this way. Ford really did screw the pooch with this car. The only saving grace will be if they offer SIGNIFICANT improvements for the 2016 model in the form of direct injection, better tires, and better suspension. I can see them leaving a bit to be desired with the exhaust note, and bolting an exhaust on my car wouldn't be a problem, I've done it before and I'd do it again. However, setting the overall performance bar so low is not acceptable in my eyes. Even the ecoboost is a little too tame imo, that motor can produce some serious power/torque. I was hoping the ecoboost could give the old ss a run for its money (in the 1/4 at least).That's something that would have grabbed some serious attention from a very wide audience. Ford could have attracted so many more buyers if they just put a bit more effort into this car. More people would have considered trading their current cars, cancelling their orders on upcoming models, and jumping their favorite brands ships to join the mustang clan. Isn't that what ford wanted? I hope ford high ups, mustang engineers, and bean counters look at these threads and hear the cries for more. You let me down ford...

Only using this opinion as a representative example, not directly at you personally.

Thank god Ford is aiming this car for the masses. If they made their performance pack to please the hardcore racers out there it would be more extreme and more focused and fitting for a more niche customer.
“EXACTLY!” you say? Look at this from Fords perspective, as a business. This would please the few, but displease the many, many who do not look at this as if they were buying an Ariel Atom.
So do you think the engineers are idiots? Of course they could have put together a package to beat the Chevy, but Ford the business knows they will sell many more to the people who are not in the tiny demo of "racers" who care about 2 seconds on a track. Also, costs to make this track star a segment winner would have to go up since they already put money to make other parts of the car better than the competition. (the interior)
So, the balance they struck gave them a competitive car (the "utter failure" type comments are ridiculous hyperbole) that will sell more.It seems as though they decided to slice up the enthusiast segment different than Chevy and the step up in track focused performance they gave it was slightly less. The next step up to the GT350 will obviously be a better track vehicle.

I get it. Admit it, everybody wants the pride to have purchased the best available. (me too) Nothing wrong with that, human nature. But to declare the sky is falling at this “complete, utter failure, slaughter, incompetent, HUGE letdown," yada yada……............


I just got bored with this response….


So……
Racers not happy.
Ford sells more.
Life goes on.

End of line.

 

[deven2015GT]

Only using this opinion as a representative example, not directly at you personally.

Thank god Ford is aiming this car for the masses. If they made their performance pack to please the hardcore racers out there it would be more extreme and more focused and fitting for a more niche customer.
“EXACTLY!” you say? Look at this from Fords perspective, as a business. This would please the few, but displease the many, many who do not look at this as if they were buying an Ariel Atom.
So do you think the engineers are idiots? Of course they could have put together a package to beat the Chevy, but Ford the business knows they will sell many more to the people who are not in the tiny demo of "racers" who care about 2 seconds on a track.
Also, costs to make this track star a segment winner would have to go up since they already put money to make other parts of the car better than the competition. (the interior)
So, the balance they struck gave them a competitive car (the "utter failure" type comments are ridiculous hyperbole) that will sell more.
It seems as though they decided to slice up the enthusiast segment different than Chevy and the step up in track focused performance they gave it was slightly less. The next step up to the GT350 will obviously be a better track vehicle.
I get it. Admit it everybody wants the pride to have purchased the best available. (me too) Nothing wrong with that, human nature. But to declare the sky is falling at this “complete, utter failure, slaughter, incompetent, HUGE letdown, yada yada……............


I just got bored with this response….

So……

Racers not happy.
Ford sells more.
Life goes on.

End of line.

^ This.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

I'm saying that Ford should have offered an actual track pack with upgraded suspension/tires. Spend the 1000 dollars extra that the 1LE track pack costs...

^This, this is all I'm asking for. Double it I'd pay it.

 

[flaps]

I was just looking around at comparisons of the 2011's just to see what people were saying about the Camaro and Mustang then. Basically everybody liked the Mustang better and it was faster around a track. I'm pretty confident Ford can produce better numbers with more time.

But I found something interesting about the weights on Road and Track's 2011 test. The 2011 Mustang they tested was 3830 lbs (fully loaded with the glass roof), which is more than the 3814 lbs of the fully loaded 2015 Mustang in this test. I'm sure the glass roof didn't help the 2011 but it shows there is very little weight difference between the S197 and S550.

Also, the 2011 Camaro in this test weighed 4035 lbs because it actually had some options on it, unlike the 3886 lb stripped down 1LE in the 2015 test. The Camaro would have been easily over 4000 lbs if it was optioned up like the Mustang was.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/1647c073376579613ef347acc2eca750.pdf

I doubt the Mustang would have beaten it around the track even if they were optioned the same, but it definitely would have been closer.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

^This, this is all I'm asking for. Double it I'd pay it.

Yep, I would pay 3k for it.

 

[BaylorCorvette]

Still, if GM doesn't solve the horrible visibility problems the current car has they'll lose a lot of sales.

Maybe, maybe not. Ever since the 5th gen was released it has outsold the Mustang (YoY).

I think the main thing is going to be how the 6th gen looks. It will no doubt get a power increase with the new LT1 engine, and weight *should* decrease some due to going to a smaller chassis (Alpha) so overall performance for the 6th gen *should* be better in every department.

I'm holding out to see what this whole GT350 is going to be, I really do hope it is going to be the crazy track car that all the rumors are making it out to be.

 

[DivineStrike]

I was just looking around at comparisons of the 2011's just to see what people were saying about the Camaro and Mustang then. Basically everybody liked the Mustang better and it was faster around a track. I'm pretty confident Ford can produce better numbers with more time.

But I found something interesting about the weights on Road and Track's 2011 test. The 2011 Mustang they tested was 3830 lbs (fully loaded with the glass roof), which is more than the 3814 lbs of the fully loaded 2015 Mustang in this test. I'm sure the glass roof didn't help the 2011 but it shows there is very little weight difference between the S197 and S550.

Also, the 2011 Camaro in this test weighed 4035 lbs because it actually had some options on it, unlike the 3886 lb stripped down 1LE in the 2015 test. The Camaro would have been easily over 4000 lbs if it was optioned up like the Mustang was.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/1647c073376579613ef347acc2eca750.pdf

I doubt the Mustang would have beaten it around the track even if they were optioned the same, but it definitely would have been closer.

I find R&T's weight results odd, as motortrends 2011 fully loaded w/ no glass roof weighed in at 3620. R&T's test vehicls msrp 39,680; MT $39,750. Something is up with R&T's weights unless the Glass roof weighs 200lbs which I doubt.

 

[minicobra]

bigger, wider, more contact patch better tires = Better braking, more grip faster lap times.

Also, this is just ONE lap, did they average it out among several?
It could become worse for the Mustang or better, but I'm thinking 3 or 5 laps would be a better comparison. Anyone can have a bad lap too, even the pros, looks to me like the car was hanging it out a bit far on a couple of turns, so could of lost a second just there.

There will be more track comparisons to come, I think the new Mustang is a great car, and has tons of potential. Ford had to leave something on the table for future upgrades and re-freshes.
I just wish they would have went a little more aggressive with there wheel/tire combo on the PP, or have an upgrade option for wider wheels stiffer spring/strut combo and call it the PP/Track like some have mentioned.

PP/Steet = $2495
PP/Track = $3495 (11" rear/ 10" front, upgraded rubber and suspension)

I would have paid an extra grand :-)

The problem here is they probably want to bridge the gap further between the GT/PP and GT/350. As long as the didn't make any engine upgrades on the GT/PP, the 350 would still have an advantage, bigger tires, etc. and more power.

Well, i'm not too concerned, I was planning on upgrading all that stuff regardless of this review with the 1LE, even if the Mustang had come out on top, but it would have been nice to have a little higher starting point from the factory.

 

[BaylorCorvette]

Also, this is just ONE lap, did they average it out among several?
It could become worse for the Mustang or better, but I'm thinking 3 or 5 laps would be a better comparison. Anyone can have a bad lap too, even the pros, looks to me like the car was hanging it out a bit far on a couple of turns, so could of lost a second just there.

When MT has Randy lap different cars they have him make multiple laps and record the best time. A lot of the video footage is from other runs, in particular the ones where the cars get loose and "look cool."

However I would like to see them do these tests with 3-5 laps (minimum), would be interesting to see how brake fade would effect cars, because realistically for those of us who track our cars how often do we only do one lap at a time??

 

[OppoLock]

bigger, wider, more contact patch better tires = Better braking, more grip faster lap times.

Also, this is just ONE lap, did they average it out among several?
It could become worse for the Mustang or better, but I'm thinking 3 or 5 laps would be a better comparison. Anyone can have a bad lap too, even the pros, looks to me like the car was hanging it out a bit far on a couple of turns, so could of lost a second just there.

There will be more track comparisons to come, I think the new Mustang is a great car, and has tons of potential. Ford had to leave something on the table for future upgrades and re-freshes.
I just wish they would have went a little more aggressive with there wheel/tire combo on the PP, or have an upgrade option for wider wheels stiffer spring/strut combo and call it the PP/Track like some have mentioned.

PP/Steet = $2495
PP/Track = $3495 (11" rear/ 10" front, upgraded rubber and suspension)

I would have paid an extra grand :-)

The problem here is they probably want to bridge the gap further between the GT/PP and GT/350. As long as the didn't make any engine upgrades on the GT/PP, the 350 would still have an advantage, bigger tires, etc. and more power.

Well, i'm not too concerned, I was planning on upgrading all that stuff regardless of this review with the 1LE, even if the Mustang had come out on top, but it would have been nice to have a little higher starting point from the factory.

You're right, Pobst definitely missed more apexes and didn't have as many clean corner exits as he did in the 1LE, but that might be indicative that the 1LE is easier to both place and power power out.

A two lap average or warm-up/hotlap combo would be preferable and more credible to say the least.

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