Dark Horse SC, who's adding one, who's replacing with one, what will it do to GT500 values?

[Epiphany]

Pricing and cost to manufacture are not typically connected like you are assuming. Especially not for a low volume premium product. We aren't talking about shampoo or razor blades here. You can only buy this product from Ford.

I don't think Ford will try to sell 50,000 DHSC Mustangs. Ford built about 14,000 GT500s total. Many of the GT500s sold for more than MSRP, because people were willing to pay more than MSRP for the cars (Ford didn't charge enough for them). 14,000 cars represent less than 1% of what Ford sells in a year, and they took 2 years to sell that many GT500s. It's more of an advertising campaign than a profit center for them.

Used GT500s are 4-6 years old now, and they are typically selling at $85-110K. Most cars lose almost 50% of their value in that amount of time. This is another data point showing that GT500 buyers got a great deal on their cars. Ford doesn't want to price the DHSC so low that the dealers get $10K-20K of profit in ADMs over the margin that Ford leaves for them. Ford wants that money.

I wouldn't be surprised if the base DHSC is well over $100K. Ford will sell as many as they want to. The performance will be amazing and shocking. Buyers will love the car.

Hack, you nailed it on all counts. Well said.

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[TonyNJ]

Hack, you nailed it on all counts. Well said.

Except for this part: "Many of the GT500s sold for more than MSRP"

Most of them sold for more than MSRP.

 

[MachNroll]

Pricing and cost to manufacture are not typically connected like you are assuming. Especially not for a low volume premium product. We aren't talking about shampoo or razor blades here. You can only buy this product from Ford.

I don't think Ford will try to sell 50,000 DHSC Mustangs. Ford built about 14,000 GT500s total. Many of the GT500s sold for more than MSRP, because people were willing to pay more than MSRP for the cars (Ford didn't charge enough for them). 14,000 cars represent less than 1% of what Ford sells in a year, and they took 2 years to sell that many GT500s. It's more of an advertising campaign than a profit center for them.

Used GT500s are 4-6 years old now, and they are typically selling at $85-110K. Most cars lose almost 50% of their value in that amount of time. This is another data point showing that GT500 buyers got a great deal on their cars. Ford doesn't want to price the DHSC so low that the dealers get $10K-20K of profit in ADMs over the margin that Ford leaves for them. Ford wants that money.

I wouldn't be surprised if the base DHSC is well over $100K. Ford will sell as many as they want to. The performance will be amazing and shocking. Buyers will love the car.

I was, and still am, lukewarm on the Dark Horse model. But, from what I can tell, it certainly performs quite well and for mid $60k for a gently used "base" optioned I think it's a fair price. Now, to get a DHSC if its price tag is over $100k holy cow, I I'd have to explore other options. I wonder how many folks will be priced out of the DHSC because it is over $100k but would be all over it if it was, say, $85k.

 

[Epiphany]

I wonder how many folks will be priced out of the DHSC because it is over $100k but would be all over it if it was, say, $85k.

This intent is all about performance but short of GTD realm. I can assure you that it won't be available for $85K. Those that actually buy the car, at whatever price they are willing to pay, are going to be very happy with on track performance.

 

[TonyNJ]

Have there been any rumblings from Ford about power, price, or weight since the reveal? Spring is around the corner and that's when the order books open up.

 

[Headless Horseman]

This intent is all about performance but short of GTD realm. I can assure you that it won't be available for $85K. Those that actually buy the car, at whatever price they are willing to pay, are going to be very happy with on track performance.

I have no horse in this race. I can't currently afford it, and I dont care for the looks. If I was in the market for one I'd go with the GT500 because I personally think it looks better and its the same drive train. My question is if its the same drive train how much better can we expect it to be over the 500? I don't hate the Dark Horse or the SC. They're just not my cup of tea. I love the fact that Ford is still giving us horsepower and performance. I just don't care for the current designs personally. I'm truly curious about what improvements were made to that platform.

 

[oregongt350]

I hate to sound like a broken record but if I wanted a Camaro I would buy one, except they are obsolete. The new “stangs” are just to Camaro like for my taste. That being said new is always fun, my 500 has 8200 miles.

 

[SheepDog]

LOL. No. 100k is ridiculous. It’s not a Shelby and ford has saved money left and right on this car and should price it accordingly. Ive said everything that needs to be said about this car including what a facelift we gt500 with some improvements should cost in 2026 stripped of the Shelby licensing and heritage. Let’s not pretend Ford doesn’t charge for intangibles.

if this were a new platform, had gone twin turbo, or made some generational leap in performance (meaning truly measurable performsnce across the board. Not just “hey, look how much faster it is on this track and that track”), great. But it’s not looking that way. If Ford surprises and the car blows us all away in comparison, then great! I’ll be happy to eat my words. But if it’s an incremental upgrade over the gr500, come on. That isn’t right at all. Especially minus the Shelby licensing.

But a loaded Darkhorse costs nearly 85K. So a base DHSC should be 90K? A base Raptor (801A) costs $84k. A Raptor R costs $115k. You are living in a pre-covid fantasy world, where things cost what they should, instead of what corporations now know they can sell them for. You are going to pay a "penalty" for buying the DHSC. Not because it is a leap in performance, not because it is a total redesign, not because it is worth 80k more than a base S650 - but because it is the only thing like it right now, because it will be a relatively low production vehicle, and because Ford knows they can get $125K for a loaded version.

Arguing that "Ford did us dirty" doesn't make sense in the World we all now live in. You can always buy a competitors newest performance equivalent, oh wait.... no you can't because none exist.

Another option would be to buy a Darkhorse, and then attempt yourself to bring it up to the performance and reliability of the DHSC. Nope, can't do that either. By the time you get done figuring out how to swap in the TREMEC Dual Clutch, a built motor with PD blower, carbon ceramic brakes, all of the carbon bits, wider fenders, those amazing carbon fiber wheels etc, I guarantee you will have a shittier car, for more money.

 

[btown93]

But a loaded Darkhorse costs nearly 85K. So a base DHSC should be 90K? A base Raptor (801A) costs $84k. A Raptor R costs $115k. You are living in a pre-covid fantasy world, where things cost what they should, instead of what corporations now know they can sell them for. You are going to pay a "penalty" for buying the DHSC. Not because it is a leap in performance, not because it is a total redesign, not because it is worth 80k more than a base S650 - but because it is the only thing like it right now, because it will be a relatively low production vehicle, and because Ford knows they can get $125K for a loaded version.

Arguing that "Ford did us dirty" doesn't make sense in the World we all now live in. You can always buy a competitors newest performance equivalent, oh wait.... no you can't because none exist.

Another option would be to buy a Darkhorse, and then attempt yourself to bring it up to the performance and reliability of the DHSC. Nope, can't do that either. By the time you get done figuring out how to swap in the TREMEC Dual Clutch, a built motor with PD blower, carbon ceramic brakes, all of the carbon bits, wider fenders, those amazing carbon fiber wheels etc, I guarantee you will have a shittier car, for more money.

now this is a common sense post

 

[Thomas]

The 2022 CFTP loaded (with POTS), was 114.5k.

A DHSC, with CCBs, POTS (if its an option) and CF wheels....is going to be more than this. 130 would not shock me in the slightest with inflation - granted, the price increase from 2021 to 2022 made up a lot of that. It was the difference between a 96k car fully loaded, and 114.5k.

They supposedly added suspension refinements - this, more than the power, interests me as we may be able to take advantage of this on S550 GT500s. It's where I expect most of any improvements on track time will come from, UNLESS....they stick a R-compound tire on it, then that is going to be the biggest gain and the most disappointing. Anyone can slap sticker tires on a car and improve lap/drag times.

 

[Strokerswild]

Except for this part: "Many of the GT500s sold for more than MSRP"

Most of them sold for more than MSRP.

Facts. I couldn't find a list deal anywhere on a '22.

In addition to price (which I believe will be $100K+ to start), I wonder if styling will reduce the take rate on the SC.

All things considered, the GT500s look like even more of a bargain now than they were new.

 

[oregongt350]

So a DHSC can out track a 500 ?

 

[MAGS1]

So a DHSC can out track a 500 ?

That’s the rumor

 

[SheepDog]

Facts. I couldn't find a list deal anywhere on a '22.

In addition to price (which I believe will be $100K+ to start), I wonder if styling will reduce the take rate on the SC.

All things considered, the GT500s look like even more of a bargain now than they were new.

There are still some good ones out there

https://mcofchicago.com/vehicle-details?id=1955d94ae57840dcb659cb36b39a49dd

 

[9secondko]

Pricing and cost to manufacture are not typically connected like you are assuming. Especially not for a low volume premium product. We aren't talking about shampoo or razor blades here. You can only buy this product from Ford.

I don't think Ford will try to sell 50,000 DHSC Mustangs. Ford built about 14,000 GT500s total. Many of the GT500s sold for more than MSRP, because people were willing to pay more than MSRP for the cars (Ford didn't charge enough for them). 14,000 cars represent less than 1% of what Ford sells in a year, and they took 2 years to sell that many GT500s. It's more of an advertising campaign than a profit center for them.

Used GT500s are 4-6 years old now, and they are typically selling at $85-110K. Most cars lose almost 50% of their value in that amount of time. This is another data point showing that GT500 buyers got a great deal on their cars. Ford doesn't want to price the DHSC so low that the dealers get $10K-20K of profit in ADMs over the margin that Ford leaves for them. Ford wants that money.

I wouldn't be surprised if the base DHSC is well over $100K. Ford will sell as many as they want to. The performance will be amazing and shocking. Buyers will love the car.

incorrect. The fact that there is so little correlation with the sc and what it takes to make it is the issue at hand.

it will be even more of an issue not being a Shelby.

yesterdays tech at tomorrows prices, with nary a nostalgia bait to make up the difference.

Instead of how much they can put into an affordable car, it’s now a game of how much people can get conned into overpaying. a new era of “bold moves” marketing from Ford. s197 gt500 guys will remember that one.

the sc is a neat car for what it is, but it’s not the progress we should be seeing by now. And we shouldn’t be paying as though it is.

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