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MAGS1

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I told him yesterday that there are so many iconic nameplates that could have been pulled from. I guess they didn’t want to continue to pay Shelby for just the name which is stupid in my opinion.
I was looking for him earlier today to tell him that nobody likes this name!
Boss or Cobra wouldn’t have cost them a dime…
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Joe Gonsalves

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Oof. Lots of, dare I say, ignorant and presumptive opinions there?

1. The F150 Lightning DID sell well, but got stale as the EV industry moves faster than the ICE industry. For a company like Ford, where product development takes 4-5 years, the F150 Lightning got stale very quickly as it was passed up by more compelling offers for the same or less money. A 2022 used $50,000 Launch Edition Rivian R1T is more truck than the 2025 F-150 lightning for $60,000+. It's really simple math.

2. Ford in general has got a dealership problem. Ford's dealerships are known for being both sleazy and expensive. Moreover, it was pretty well known that they did not really care to move the Lightnings in favor of models like the Raptors.

3. The Mach-E went on sale in Dec 2020 as a 21 model and began outselling the ICE Mustang in less than 3 years.

4. I will agree that the S650 is too expensive, too heavy, too tech-focused to be the "poor man's" fast car that it used to be. That coupled with the fact that you can get an equally quick EV from Hyundai or a mild M car from BMW for the same money, and you've got a recipe for low sales.

5. The Gen Z crowd loves sports cars, they just can't afford them. The cheapest EcoBoost starts at $32,500 which is around a $560 - $600/m payment with GOOD credit, and no wonder they're not selling. You can tell by the number of older model year ecoboosts you see on the road. There's absolutely a desire for them for less money.

6. I agree that they should've used a halo moniker like Cobra, BOSS, or something of that nature. It would've immediately provided nostalgia for the older buyers who can afford the car.

All in all, I agree that Ford dropped the ball. I just don't think it's for the reasons you think.
You just made my point sales "got stale" on the Lightning. Huge money invested in that.
 

xr4x4ti

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Ok, I am not saying this is the greatest car ever or anything. But I do think the front end looks OK and WAY better than the normal S650.

But, for the engine, why is it a big deal that they are using the same engine again? Dodge has been using the same basic Hellcat engine for 10+ years and every time they put it into something angels sing from the heavens. Ford puts one of their best engines in another car and it is some sort of let down. If Dodge put the hellcat into the new Charger tomorrow it would be like the second coming on the internet. I don't get it.

Yes, personally I would have liked a manual transmission, or even the 10sp with a lower price, but having the Predator motor is not a let down for me.
 

dnstommy

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Oof. Lots of, dare I say, ignorant and presumptive opinions there?

1. The F150 Lightning DID sell well, but got stale as the EV industry moves faster than the ICE industry. For a company like Ford, where product development takes 4-5 years, the F150 Lightning got stale very quickly as it was passed up by more compelling offers for the same or less money. A 2022 used $50,000 Launch Edition Rivian R1T is more truck than the 2025 F-150 lightning for $60,000+. It's really simple math.

2. Ford in general has got a dealership problem. Ford's dealerships are known for being both sleazy and expensive. Moreover, it was pretty well known that they did not really care to move the Lightnings in favor of models like the Raptors.

3. The Mach-E went on sale in Dec 2020 as a 21 model and began outselling the ICE Mustang in less than 3 years.

4. I will agree that the S650 is too expensive, too heavy, too tech-focused to be the "poor man's" fast car that it used to be. That coupled with the fact that you can get an equally quick EV from Hyundai or a mild M car from BMW for the same money, and you've got a recipe for low sales.

5. The Gen Z crowd loves sports cars, they just can't afford them. The cheapest EcoBoost starts at $32,500 which is around a $560 - $600/m payment with GOOD credit, and no wonder they're not selling. You can tell by the number of older model year ecoboosts you see on the road. There's absolutely a desire for them for less money.

6. I agree that they should've used a halo moniker like Cobra, BOSS, or something of that nature. It would've immediately provided nostalgia for the older buyers who can afford the car.

All in all, I agree that Ford dropped the ball. I just don't think it's for the reasons you think.
No electric truck sold well. No Silverado, not CT, not Lighting, not R1T. Meanwhile ICE trucks are selling 5 million a year across all brands. Truck buyers said loud and clear "NO". And then 99% of them bought an ICE truck. Moving to the EREV is the right and only move for Ford. And all the battery production is going into grid support. That will be a good business for Ford.
 

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TonyNJ

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Ford puts one of their best engines in another car and it is some sort of let down. If Dodge put the hellcat into the new Charger tomorrow it would be like the second coming on the internet. I don't get it.
I think the Ford customers have higher expectations 🤷‍♂️

Edit: Expensive Mustang customers.
 

Schwerin

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I told him yesterday that there are so many iconic nameplates that could have been pulled from. I guess they didn’t want to continue to pay Shelby for just the name which is stupid in my opinion.
I was looking for him earlier today to tell him that nobody likes this name!
Mach1, Boss, Cobra, Eliminator, Twister(could be a take on the fact it has a supercharger).

Could have used some former project names like Terminator, P51, or even just call it Ford Racing Mustang. Or do like the Raptors, have the Dark Horse, and Dark Horse R.

Things were so much simpler when everything was SVT. What I never understood was why they never released Mustangs with Ford Racing packages. It made so much sense in my mind back then.

Mustang
Mustang with Ford Racing pkg (exhaust, wheels, accessory pullies, intake, maybe a Ford Racing ECU tune)
Mustang GT
Mustang GT with FR pkg
SVT Cobra
SVT Cobra with FR pkg

Ford ALMOST did this with the Escort ZX2. They sold the ZX2, the ZX2 S/R, which just had parts from the Ford Racing catalog on it from the factory, and they were working on an SVT ZX2, the engine of which after being canceled turned into the engine used for the first Focus RS in the EU.
 

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I think the Ford customers have higher expectations 🤷‍♂️

Edit: Expensive Mustang customers.
I really think the problem is fundamentally that its a transitional period for Ford getting away from the generation that knew the old models, and moving forward with new ones and getting them established. So its a bunch of mish-mashed expectations from different demographics as the new precedent get's set. People complain about affordability but that is what the Ecoboost is for. It's a great car and better than the everyman mustang used to be. Ford has expanded the lineup beyond "everyman" mustangs because they make more money doing that.
 

MAGS1

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If Dodge put the hellcat into the new Charger tomorrow it would be like the second coming on the internet.
They are doing this by the way. Saw something on the ole interwebs the other day
 

80FoxCoupe

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I like the DHSC better than a Gt500 in every way save for the stupid wide-screen TV dash. I think the DHSC looks better and appears to be essentially the same car outside of some small differences (cooler stack, brakes, wheels and probably more shit). I won't buy either one so it's inconsequential LOL. I'd take a Raptor R over either any day of the week.
 

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MX915

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I took a look at a few things trying to get a ballpark price.

Base price for a 2022 Mach 1 700A was 53,000 in 2022. A 2026 Darkhorse 700A base price is 69,000 and change. Thats a 30% price increase for literally the same car 4 years later.

Base price for a 22 GT500 was 76,820. With the same percentage increase, you can expect the base price of this car to be 100,000. They will upcharge for the track pack, carbon fiber trim package, teal accent package, super limited track package, etc.

With options, this thing will easily be 130,000 plus.

Thats Z06 territory. Insane.

I’ll get some carbon ceramics and cup 2 r tires for my 2022 500 and pocket the rest of the money and still have a better looking (and probably equally performing) car.
 

Strokerswild

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Guess we'll know soon if there's anything beyond the DHSC....
 

daSNAK3

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What are the chances a base model is under $95k?
 

OX1

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Base $90k, CFTP $110k, Special Editions $125k. 🤞

If it weighs 4400lbs, I'm definitely not buying one. If it's 4000lbs or under, I'll consider an all black CFTP.

If it's $100k + for a base and 4300lbs, I'm not a buyer.
My 21 came in at 4098 with 3/8's tank.

DH is 3993 W/auto
21 Mach 1 was 3913 with auto.

So lets assume S650 is approx 80 lbs heavier in a kinda "GT350" auto, guise comparison.

That CF rotor thread reported saving 27 lbs for each front rotor (for 20+ GT500's).
Lets assume you save that 80 lbs back from the DHSC CF brakes (F/R rotors combined).

My guess, a bit more weight overall for 26 "GT500" vs 2020 designed GT500,
just from general weight creep.

So my guess is 4140 for S650 "CFTP".........
 
 








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