GTD allocations should be this week

[Tomster]

718 GT4...............?

You won't be able to order/receive a 718 GT4 RS unless you have spent 5 million in vehicle purchase through Porsche.
But the 718 GT4 is light weight, great horsepower and handling. Even Porsche is reported a saying that this is most probably the best handling Porsche ever. No first-hand knowledge, however.

Again, fill in the blank

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[Tomster]

I applaud the community for keeping this conversation civil and informative. Still no word from the concierge.......

 

[WItoTX]

No link... I was told personally by Jim Ellis Porsche, that only customers who have spent 5M on total Porsche purchases would be able to order at 718 GT4 RS.
Now this is the "RS" model. Anyone can get on the order list for a regular 718 GT4.... the RS is a different beast apparently.

Porsche may be pandering to the You-Tuber whores for advertising recognition.

I know two owners of the gr4rs that most definitely did not spend $5mm with Porsche before getting theirs new. One guy had never owned a Porsche before.

 

[MAGS1]

I know two owners of the gr4rs that most definitely did not spend $5mm with Porsche before getting theirs new. One guy had never owned a Porsche before.

Might be a dealership gatekeeping their allocations too. Although, I have heard of several people (a family member of mine included) that would have to work their way up to a certain level by buying lesser models/trims first. The family member of mine basically gave them the middle finger and bought another Ferrari instead

 

[dpAtlanta]

I know two owners of the gr4rs that most definitely did not spend $5mm with Porsche before getting theirs new. One guy had never owned a Porsche before.

It might be local…. Only relaying what I was told!

 

[WItoTX]

It might be local…. Only relaying what I was told!

Oh for sure. Just wanted to provide another data point, probably has a ton to do with local markets and availability.

 

[K4fxd]

Just wanted to provide another data point, probably has a ton to do with local markets and availability.

I would believe you need to own another Porsche at some point. GM adds a tax for Corvette buyers who have not owned one previously.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

The local porsche dealer tried this when I made an inquiry late last summer. Oddly enough I found a few dealers out of state that would place the order without an issue. The german car service side is what has always given me major pause. The local dealer‘s serice side is not good to say the least. In the past I knew senior techs so it wasn’t a concern. They’ve moved on so, a pass on my part. On the GM side for a new vette, it wouldn’t be an issue to get a decent deal(no adm’s) on a new O6. A very nice car depending on how it’s spec’s. I can’t speak for others but I’d have a hard time giving up what I currently have to go down either route. The Gtd will be an amazing car, that I don’t doubt, but the cost/value side is up in the air at the moment. To not awknowledge that is naive at best. Ford needs to step up and do a much better job promoting the Gtd other then simply saying it’s an allocation process and it’s a halo car. I do hope Ford steps up. I pushed the allocation to a 26 a while back. Even after seeing the car in person I still have an issue seeing a 300k plus car. If you do an actual apples to apples comparison it’s hard to see how the Gtd is a 3-4 times the cost of Cftp 500 car.

Oh for sure. Just wanted to provide another data point, probably has a ton to do with local markets and availability.

I would believe you need to own another Porsche at some point. GM adds a tax for Corvette buyers who have not owned one previously.

 

[WItoTX]

The local porsche dealer tried this when I made an inquiry late last summer. Oddly enough I found a few dealers out of state that would place the order without an issue. The german car service side is what has always given me major pause. The local dealer‘s serice side is not good to say the least. In the past I knew senior techs so it wasn’t a concern. They’ve moved on so, a pass on my part. On the GM side for a new vette, it wouldn’t be an issue to get a decent deal(no adm’s) on a new O6. A very nice car depending on how it’s spec’s. I can’t speak for others but I’d have a hard time giving up what I currently have to go down either route. The Gtd will be an amazing car, that I don’t doubt, but the cost/value side is up in the air at the moment. To not awknowledge that is naive at best. Ford needs to step up and do a much better job promoting the Gtd other then simply saying it’s an allocation process and it’s a halo car. I do hope Ford steps up. I pushed the allocation to a 26 a while back. Even after seeing the car in person I still have an issue seeing a 300k plus car. If you do an actual apples to apples comparison it’s hard to see how the Gtd is a 3-4 times the cost of Cftp 500 car.

I haven't seen one in person, and obviously haven't been on any allocations list. Since you are on it, do they give you a better "tour" of the car? Personally, I would be really interested in the front and rear subframes and unibody, I am just curious if one gets to see more details of the car being on an allocation list?

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I haven’t look to see if I have access to the configurer, but from what I’ve gather from a few others that have allocations it’s not much different then when you do a build of any other type of car. The fuel tank wouldn’t be an issue for myself, but I completely understand Tom’s issue. It’s the same scenario I had with my Rzr Pro R. It gets 8-10 mpg, range was about a hundred miles depending on how hard you run it and in what terrain. Not ideal way out in the boonies or mountains. I added a custom fabbed at the time 3 1/2 gallon fuel cell that transfers to the main with electric pump/switched. I honestly don’t think Tom would get 2/3’s of a session with the Gtd and the fuel tank size. Not atleast how he would drive the car.

I haven't seen one in person, and obviously haven't been on any allocations list. Since you are on it, do they give you a better "tour" of the car? Personally, I would be really interested in the front and rear subframes and unibody, I am just curious if one gets to see more details of the car being on an allocation list?

 

[Tomster]

I haven’t look to see if I have access to the configurer, but from what I’ve gather from a few others that have allocations it’s not much different then when you do a build of any other type of car. The fuel tank wouldn’t be an issue for myself, but I completely understand Tom’s issue. It’s the same scenario I had with my Rzr Pro R. It gets 8-10 mpg, range was about a hundred miles depending on how hard you run it and in what terrain. Not ideal way out in the boonies or mountains. I added a custom fabbed at the time 3 1/2 gallon fuel cell that transfers to the main with electric pump/switched. I honestly don’t think Tom would get 2/3’s of a session with the Gtd and the fuel tank size. Not atleast how he would drive the car.

Tob and I discussed trying to make the 16 gal tank work with an aux tank as you describe. Here is the problem. We bounced ideas back and forth and kept coming up with "there's no room". I think when I suggested (thinking out loud) the fender flare..... he stopped me right there and said that is a really bad idea. At that point we dropped it altogether.

I agree with you on so many points. I hope nobody thinks I am bashing the car. I think its a great accomplishment for Ford, but when the shoe doesn't fit, it just doesn't fit.

I'm still holding out for more information. Who knows, maybe they will engineer the fuel system to something more suited to me and my driving at that track. It's important to say, and I think I said it before, my problems aren't necessarily someone else's problems. I'm sure the car would be great for most people at the majority of tracks.

 

[WItoTX]

I haven’t look to see if I have access to the configurer, but from what I’ve gather from a few others that have allocations it’s not much different then when you do a build of any other type of car. The fuel tank wouldn’t be an issue for myself, but I completely understand Tom’s issue. It’s the same scenario I had with my Rzr Pro R. It gets 8-10 mpg, range was about a hundred miles depending on how hard you run it and in what terrain. Not ideal way out in the boonies or mountains. I added a custom fabbed at the time 3 1/2 gallon fuel cell that transfers to the main with electric pump/switched. I honestly don’t think Tom would get 2/3’s of a session with the Gtd and the fuel tank size. Not atleast how he would drive the car.

I'm more curious of the details. Like seeing what the unibody is made of, was there the possibility to make the car fully CF, I am 99% certain the subframe is steel, so why is that? Is there any weight savings left on the table for the aftermarket?

Body panels could have been aluminum if the basic frame of the car was done in CF.

That is why I'm asking the question, just to get more details on construction.

No doubt it's a drinker. It's American, I expect nothing less!

 

[Strokerswild]

Tob and I discussed trying to make the 16 gal tank work with an aux tank as you describe. Here is the problem. We bounced ideas back and forth and kept coming up with "there's no room". I think when I suggested (thinking out loud) the fender flare..... he stopped me right there and said that is a really bad idea. At that point we dropped it altogether.

I agree with you on so many points. I hope nobody thinks I am bashing the car. I think its a great accomplishment for Ford, but when the shoe doesn't fit, it just doesn't fit.

I'm still holding out for more information. Who knows, maybe they will engineer the fuel system to something more suited to me and my driving at that track. It's important to say, and I think I said it before, my problems aren't necessarily someone else's problems. I'm sure the car would be great for most people at the majority of tracks.

Would it be safe/prudent to mount a fuel cell in the trunk space and plumb to the factory unit? Or does the transaxle and suspension essentially make the normal trunk tiny (non-existent?) and thus useless?

 

[Tomster]

Or does the transaxle and suspension essentially make the normal trunk tiny (non-existent?) and thus useless?

I believe that is the case. That was first on the idea list, but was quickly shot down.

 

[ecoboost321]

1. I think this is the problem. They started with a darkhorse Mustang that weighs in at about 4000 pounds from the start. Add a bunch more weight and then take some off, we find ourselves at almost 4400 pounds. The heavier the car, the harder it is to turn, stop, and accelerate. Keep in mind the price tag of this car. Why? It seems that the car was priced relatively to the competition and not so much about how much it costs to manufacture the car. $100,000 cheaper, no matter the weight, would have been a home run. Change the focus to the ZR1. That thing is out breaking records at some of the most notorious tracks. It will be interesting to see what they do at the Ring.

2. Yes. But the problem goes back to number 1 above. You start with a car that is heavy already. Your hands are tied. I get the whole GT3 racecar thing, but the GTD is not a GT3, it only has some commonalities. The differences tip the scale at almost 4400 pounds.

The way forward should have been weight savings from the start. The GT had a CF tub and was purposebuilt to keep the weight down for obvious reasons. This probably would mean that they didn't use a Darkhourse as the basis for the car. Maybe a CF tub like the GT??? Who knows. Yes, I'm aware of cost.

Some elaboration on weight and fuel consumption.......

Driving that 500 around Daytona is a lot of fun when you get to the outside and put your foot on the floor. Not much can touch it. However it's a different story on the inside course. That 4000 pounds can't turn and accelerate like the lighter cars out there. The 5.2 supercharged V8 gobbles the gas down at rates that doesn't let you go all out for a 30 min session. Between the weight of the DCT and supercharger it took a 3700 pound GT350 and turned it into a 4000 pound porker. I go through 2 sets of brakes and 2 sets of tires in a weekend. Turning and stopping a 4000 pound car eats stuff up.

The GTD has the same challenges. Same engine, supercharger, DCT transaxle, but the car started heavy via the Darkhorse. Unfortunately, the chassis weight can not really be overcome.

Everywhere that weight could be saved has been done so. CF body panels (except the steel doors) carbon brakes, CF driveshaft, etc. It's just a heavy car.

The part that I can't go along with is the 16 gallon tank. Even if multimatic re-engineered the fuel supply system to be able to extract the last drop of fuel with no starvation issues, the car won't have enough gas to run flat out at the car's namesake track. I run into fuel starvation with a supercharged 5.2L and a 16 gallon tank.

Most won't have that problem. They drive in the groups that have slower traffic with lots of cars on the track along with with point by's and no passing zones. That essentially keeps a drivers foot off the gas and keeps them from having this issue. However, put the car on the Daytona Speedway, driving unrestricted and flat out, and it will not be able to go 30 minutes. It's right around the 20 min mark that the engine suffers from intermittent starvation.

This particular issue won't affect most people at most tracks, but in this instance, it will effect me. $400,000 is a lot of money for what I perceive as a 4400 pound car with problems.

For this reason, I have asked to defer to the next model year in hopes that some of this stuff is worked out.

Yes, the fuel tank size is an unsolvable problem at this point for the GTD, or any modern Mustang . Kudos to porsche for offering and extended range 23+ gallon tank for the GT cars !

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