LT1 Vs 5.0 Opinions

[thePill]

I think the new Chevy LT series V8's were a very, very bad idea. First, as many here say, the pushrods. The LT won't be capable of the RPM's the Coyote and Voodoo are doing. I heard that GM's DOHC program (Ultra) was restarted some time ago. Unfortunately, they needed a competitive V8 and they needed one 5 years ago.

These guys invested $820,000,000 dollars into the LT V8's, that could have built an incredible DOHC engine (or series of engines). Now they are kinda screwed...

The LT1 now weighs far more than Ford's DOHC engines. We won't know how much for sure until DI is added into the 'Yote. The 5.0 should settle around 440-450lbs without PTWA. The LT1 is already beyond that at 465lbs...

The cost is also in the Coyotes favor... Weight, cost, RPM's without valve float... Lots of crap the LT1 still needs to overcome.

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[Sterling Archer]

I think it's a very peculiar fact that the C7 Z06 was originally supposed to have a high revving naturally aspirated modular engine but GM had problems getting it to work. If the pushrod setups were so great, why wouldn't the design engineers want to keep that model for their top end nameplate?

My guess is it's only a matter of time before they start moving to turbo DOHC engines, starting with their truck lines. Ford is quite a bit of ahead of the curve in towing as a result, really the only thing that keeps up is the turbo diesel from Dodge (and who really wants a diesel that isn't a super duty?).

Edit:
I should note they already have turbo modular engines, but I meant more in the lines of their performance vehicles/trucks.

 

[1320']

I think it's a very peculiar fact that the C7 Z06 was originally supposed to have a high revving naturally aspirated modular engine but GM had problems getting it to work. If the pushrod setups were so great, why wouldn't the design engineers want to keep that model for their top end nameplate?

My guess is it's only a matter of time before they start moving to turbo DOHC engines, starting with their truck lines. Ford is quite a bit of ahead of the curve in towing as a result, really the only thing that keeps up is the turbo diesel from Dodge (and who really wants a diesel that isn't a super duty?).

Edit:
I should note they already have turbo modular engines, but I meant more in the lines of their performance vehicles/trucks.

A large reason why they had to go with FI is due to the fact the Z06 gained a significant amount of weight over the C6 Z06. In order to maintain the performance GM expected of the Z06 they could not have built a NA motor powerful enough to motivate it with authority while maintaining FE requirements and emissions compliance.

Instead, they passed off a very powerful (but not long legged or endurance minded) FI V8 with a small blower that spins itself into the atmosphere. They compromised the design because they HAD TO MEET European crash/pedestrian standards, which limits hood dimensions.

Instead of focusing on increasing track capability while accepting a "lower" power level and top speed, they felt they had to claim lighting fast laps, which they have, but are not repeatable. Yes it's 4 seconds faster around Milford than the Z/28, but after..5 laps will it be so dominant?

GM hyped the new Z06 so much they even started believing their own malarkey, and now it's proving to be just that, bullcrap.

 

[Grimace427]

They were supposed to do a DI 7.0 to replace the LS7, but apparently they couldn't make it pass emissions. That could've been a ridiculous motor.

I would have given GM a standing ovation for building that engine.

Instead of focusing on increasing track capability while accepting a "lower" power level and top speed, they felt they had to claim lighting fast laps, which they have, but are not repeatable. Yes it's 4 seconds faster around Milford than the Z/28, but after..5 laps will it be so dominant?

The first thing I think when talking about the C7Z06. Yeah the car is fast. Damn fast. I suppose if I take mine to an HPDE I'm not going to be driving it at 10/10ths to worry about it, but then I'd have to constantly point every GT350 driver by.

 

[Trackaholic]

From what I've seen, the LT-4 (I think that's what the C7Z06 engine is called) does not have issues with heat soak in terms if IAT (intake air temp), but may have issues with oil temp. Some early track-day folks are seeing temps approaching 280 I believe (I'm thinking specifically of a guy in Florida). The ambient was 70 in that case, so it wasn't a best-case scenario for the engine, but it wasn't worst-case either. I suspect the hard-core types will be needing an aftermarket oil cooler setup when summer arrives.

As far as LT1 VS Voodoo, so much depends on the entire platform, but here are my thoughts from an engine perspective:
1. LT1 will be better on fuel economy due to DI, cylinder deactivation, and lower revs.
2. LT1 will feel stronger due to more torque, but isn't as powerful (obviously, based on the numbers Ford has released about Voodoo)
3. Voodoo will sound better
4. Voodoo will feel more responsive due to flatter torque curve and lower inertia
5. Voodoo will have meaningless HP/Liter bragging rights

Overall, Voodoo is a better solution for a track weapon. LT1 may be better for the street due to fuel economy and low-end torque. Clearly if LT1 is at 1500 RPM and Voodoo is at 3000, Voodoo will feel as fast or faster, but when both are cruising at under 2000 RPM, LT1 will have more torque/power at that RPM and will therefore feel stronger.

Still, give me Voodoo X 1000 over LT1.

-T

 

[Shawnski]

They're both massive, it's just easier to get heads and cams for Camaros. The stock long block LS3 is only capable of 500-530whp, which is the same for the 5.0. The only way to get more out of the LS3 is to increase displacement, which you can do a lot more than the 5.0. Stock block vs. stock block, they're dead even really. The LT1 may gain midrange from direct injection, but I doubt it will gain a significant amount in the top end. Maybe 5-10 horsepower. After the first shift, the 5.0 is above 5500RPM all the time anyway.

1st of all you don't need aftermarket heads on a Coyote, lol. Compared to old school cam in block v8s yes the LT1 is state of the art. However the 5.0's superior OEM head and valvetrain combined with smaller more stable pistons and an equally bulletproof bottom end has my money on the Ford.

The top 3 engines in the 2013 engine masters competition were 4v mod motors. The first time 4 valve motors were allowed. They were outlawed for 2014, and a Gen III hemi won. An LS motor has yet to ever win this competition.

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/jon-kaase-racing-wins-amsoil-engine-masters-with-409ci-ford/

 

[IGJoe2192]

Modular > GM Pushrod.

I think it speaks highly of an engine manufacture when you can't find aftermarket cylinder head castings for a highly desirable product. GM engines don't breath as freely as Ford Modulars do. This speaks a lot for the OHC design and the efficiency of Ford engines. You only have to modify Ford heads (porting and polishing or valve jobs) when you are looking to make big horsepower numbers. I am speaking of looking north of 1000 plus horsepower.

 

[dirty-max]

What If the lt1 was 4 valve though..

 

[Sterling Archer]

Then the entire dynamics of the engine would be completely different, namely I would be shocked if it even fit the corvette hood. Put it this way, the Raptor uses a 6.2L engine and the engineers had expand the engine bay to make it fit.

 

[Nataphen]

Then, you would have to ask what would happen if the Coyote was a 6.2L engine. It makes no sense to even argue it.

 

[dirty-max]

Well the coyote weighs the same as the lt1 while being 1.2l less in displacement the heads for the lt1 wouldn't be much bigger I think the problem with the coyote is it being a mod motor the heads are huge everytime iv popped the hood on my car someone has said damn look at those heads on that engine! If the lt1 was a 4v it wouldn't take up much room still since it's a pushrod motor

 

[Nataphen]

"IF" they build an LT5 again, I would suspect that it may be the engine for the next ZR1. The last LT5 was built in 1989-1992 at 375 horsepower, and 1993-1995 at 405 horsepower I believe. It was a DOHC 5.7L based on the old LT1 block, and the heads were designed by Lotus. 405hp for that time was almost a miracle. That's more power than the Viper was making at the time.

If they could build a DOHC, direct-injected, high-compression, VCT 6.2L+ engine capable of 7000RPM+ that would pass CAFE standards to be the next LT5, then Ford would be in serious trouble. That's a lot of "if"s, but I guess it may be possible.

 

[dirty-max]

I just still think gm could easily pull off more with their current pushrod motor with simply moving to a simple 4v pushrod design my duramax is a fine example of a 4v pushrod motor

 

[5.0GT]

The only way I enjoy most LS motors is when they are heavily cammed otherwise I enjoy the coyote alot more. The ls7 is the only exception, wonderful engine but LS1/2/3 is blah without a big cam.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Rumor was GM tried to pull off a big DOHC engine for Z06 and couldn't get the emissions to work. But I also think that even if they could pull that off, they'd have bigger problems with cost. The Corvette is considered a bargain at their current price point, and part of that has to do with pushrod engines being relatively cheap to produce. If you tack on an extra $5-10k, I think you're pushing too hard into German performance vehicle pricing.

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