LT1 Vs 5.0 Opinions

[Hack]

LT1 is impressive on paper. Historically, it's wise to take the AFM crap and throw it in the garbage.

The Coyote is limited in NA form, as 4 cams, porting/valve jobs for 4V heads, etc are expensive...then it's just limited by it's displacement. They do respond well to boost, but $$$, not to mention the added weight. As for engine swap material, they're large externally and top heavy.

I've done a fair amt of work w/ LS engines, and they're a pleasure to work w/...the LT should be similar. A lot of potential w/ simple head/cam swaps. Biggest problem I foresee are the cars they come in being of subpar quality...as is the norm for GM.

I'm not so sure about working on the LT1. The direct injection fuel pump currently doesn't allow headroom for performance enhancement and that's not as simple to replace as a 40psi fuel pump on a port injection motor. Plus the LT1 is just too limited. The exhaust and intake valve events can't be modified independently. It leads to a very compromised motor. The cam either works great at low RPM or at high RPM, or is compromised to somewhat work ok both low and high but not optimized for either. It's a big weakness for the Chivy design.

Nice to have a motor that can meet emission standards without all the gizmos and band aids. I agree Coyote is not as easy or cost effective to modify internally. I say don't modify it internally. Power adders do work great and the Coyote can withstand huge power. If you want more without power adders, wait a couple years. Voodoo will be more.

Don't buy an automatic and you won't have to worry about it if they follow the design used on the C7. On my C7 I only get AFM if I select ECO mode. Otherwise it's off. If you did have an automatic, you just need a tune or a tuner like the Diablo Sport and turn it off. But in reality displacement on demand is nothing new and there are many models of cars with many, many miles that show no signs of problems.

Get used to this. DI is coming to everyone. Catch cans and other preventative measures are shown to work.

Nice to own a Ford where I don't have to get used to it yet. The published fuel economy is based on AFM, if I deactivate it then I get crap fuel mileage. Hopefully catch cans, etc. will be worked out/improved before I buy something that needs one. Buying a new car just to immediately have to add parts to prevent problems is not my preference.

I think the Coyote beats the LT1 in all aspects of performance.

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[Nataphen]

You can add auxiliary port injection pretty easily as for the fueling needs. It may not be available for the LT1 yet, but I'm sure it won't take long to make it to market.

I honestly wish they would've done DI on the Voodoo motor so that they could go with a higher stock compression ratio. Other than that, DI offers no advantage that switching to E85 wouldn't offer.

 

[HalfMoon]

Nice to own a Ford where I don't have to get used to it yet. The published fuel economy is based on AFM, if I deactivate it then I get crap fuel mileage. Hopefully catch cans, etc. will be worked out/improved before I buy something that needs one. Buying a new car just to immediately have to add parts to prevent problems is not my preference.

I think the Coyote beats the LT1 in all aspects of performance.

Crap?

I don't think so. Even without AFM I smoke my S550 mileage by 4+ mpg on the same commute and we're talking 6.2 liters making more power than the 5.0.

As for the fuel pump, I think you're reading old pre-tested information by the nay-sayers. The car has performed with many power adders w/o the need of more fuel. Don't believe the dis-hype.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I'm not so sure about working on the LT1. The direct injection fuel pump currently doesn't allow headroom for performance enhancement and that's not as simple to replace as a 40psi fuel pump on a port injection motor. Plus the LT1 is just too limited. The exhaust and intake valve events can't be modified independently. It leads to a very compromised motor. The cam either works great at low RPM or at high RPM, or is compromised to somewhat work ok both low and high but not optimized for either. It's a big weakness for the Chivy design.

Nice to have a motor that can meet emission standards without all the gizmos and band aids. I agree Coyote is not as easy or cost effective to modify internally. I say don't modify it internally. Power adders do work great and the Coyote can withstand huge power. If you want more without power adders, wait a couple years. Voodoo will be more.

I think the Coyote beats the LT1 in all aspects of performance.

I've seen low boost supercharged LT1s make 580 rwhp w/ no fuel mods at all. 550 rwhp w/ a head/cam swap. Not sure how much 'headroom' is needed w/ the stock stuff.

I agree that 'ideally' independent int/exh valve timing is great, but there are compromises to that design as well. 4 heavy cams (all at the top of the engine, raising CG, as well as making the engine extremely large externally), and general complexity is pretty compromising as well. All designs have compromises.

As Halfmoon noted, disabling AFM does not drop mpgs significantly.

I honestly wish they would've done DI on the Voodoo motor so that they could go with a higher stock compression ratio. Other than that, DI offers no advantage that switching to E85 wouldn't offer.

I agree, I wish the Voodoo woulda been DI as well. However, the higher rail pressure offered by DI over port injection, the more atomized the fuel is...ie, better combustion control/efficiency - that's how CR can be increased. Even if CR is not increased, you still have the advantage of homogenization.

 

[Fox9350]

The Camaro will probably appeal more to the hardcore person that likes to race and will probably have a stronger aftermarket as far as performance related parts go IMO. You'll probably see more aftermarket heads, aftermarket camshafts with aggressive profiles, aftermarket valvetrain parts, aftermarket intake manifolds, transmission related items, suspension parts, drivetrain parts, tuning software, power adders and stroker kits for it than the Mustang.

Is this true? I ask in all honesty, I always thought the Mustang had the most robust aftermarket of any car out there, is the Camaro aftermarket bigger, the same, or smaller than the Mustang?

 

[1320']

Is this true? I ask in all honesty, I always thought the Mustang had the most robust aftermarket of any car out there, is the Camaro aftermarket bigger, the same, or smaller than the Mustang?

The Camaro aftermarket isn't small, but it is still dwarfed by the Mustang market. Then again almost everything is dwarfed by the Mustang market.

 

[Nataphen]

They're both massive, it's just easier to get heads and cams for Camaros. The stock long block LS3 is only capable of 500-530whp, which is the same for the 5.0. The only way to get more out of the LS3 is to increase displacement, which you can do a lot more than the 5.0. Stock block vs. stock block, they're dead even really. The LT1 may gain midrange from direct injection, but I doubt it will gain a significant amount in the top end. Maybe 5-10 horsepower. After the first shift, the 5.0 is above 5500RPM all the time anyway.

 

[Grimace427]

They're both massive, it's just easier to get heads and cams for Camaros. The stock long block LS3 is only capable of 500-530whp, which is the same for the 5.0.

It's easier to get LS engine components because they are cheap to develop compared to the Coyote, being that they are based on the decades-old small block.

The Coyote has been putting down 600-650rwhp reliably on a stock bottom for the past 4 years.

 

[Nataphen]

Sorry, I actually meant 500-530 NA is about all that either can muster because that's all the air that they can move. I wasn't talking about durability.

 

[Grimace427]

Sorry, I actually meant 500-530 NA is about all that either can muster because that's all the air that they can move. I wasn't talking about durability.

Ah ok, I agree with that.

 

[9secondko]

New question...

Lt1 vs. Voodoo...

 

[Nataphen]

I'm crossing my fingers that the Voodoo is going to blow it away. Nobody knows yet though.

 

[Grimace427]

New question...

Lt1 vs. Voodoo...

I'd like to see them modded to see their potential, stock vs. stock though you can't deny there's a little voodoo in the Voodoo engine.

I wonder if Chevy is willing to make a dedicated LT1 high-performance model that doesn't involve a blower. RPM, compression, something racy.

 

[Nataphen]

I'd like to see them modded to see their potential, stock vs. stock though you can't deny there's a little voodoo in the Voodoo engine.

I wonder if Chevy is willing to make a dedicated LT1 high-performance model that doesn't involve a blower. RPM, compression, something racy.

They were supposed to do a DI 7.0 to replace the LS7, but apparently they couldn't make it pass emissions. That could've been a ridiculous motor.

 

[Sterling Archer]

So a few thoughts from the perspective of an engineer.

1) Fuel economy in the camaro will probably be less. The Corvette benefits from being only 3300 lbs - about 500 less than the S550. Seeing how both the Corvette and S550 actually lost weight on the chasis but gained it back (and then some) on electronics and sound dampening etc, I wouldn't be surprised if the 16 Camaro also is heavier, and therefore a considerable drop in MPG.

2) Your desired type of driver experience should play a bigger role than peak numbers. Power delivery between the two engines are drastically different, the pushrod basically slapping you in the face with torque and the Coyote building up with power until 7k rpm. For doing pulls on the highway, the LT1 will probably be more fun, but on the track the Coyote would excel.

3) Do you prefer maintenance or modding your car? Pushrod engines are easier to fix, but DOHC engines have so much more headroom from easy mods. Also consider that if you do plan on a supercharger, the low end torque advantage goes away from the LT1 (supercharged torque curves are flat).

4) Do you value your life? I'm just saying, it wouldn't be the first time GM killed a guy over shoddy engineering (too soon?)

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