Cobb got nailed by the EPA

[MAGS1]

@GregO @MAGS1

What do you think about the real issue? Cobb or Lund or SCT or Kooks or any company being held responsible for the misuse of their products?

If I buy and install Hoosier drag slicks ,not DOT approved for street use, on my car. Lets say I get caught in a rain storm and crash into a mini van full of kids.

Who is responsible? Me? Hoosier? Ford, cause it is a mustang?

I will again ask, how is it marketed? If it says off-road only, then it’s on you the end user. If not, it’s on the manufacturer of said product.

Using your Hoosier example, drag slicks say specifically say not for street use. So in your example, you’re liable not Hoosier, not Ford. Just you.

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[markayash]

I will again ask, how is it marketed? If it says off-road only, then it’s on you the end user. If not, it’s on the manufacturer of said product.

Using your Hoosier example, drag slicks say specifically say not for street use. So in your example, you’re liable not Hoosier, not Ford. Just you.

15 years ago yea today who knows

 

[K4fxd]

Using your Hoosier example, drag slicks say specifically say not for street use. So in your example, you’re liable not Hoosier, not Ford. Just you.

So why is Cobb liable? Why is it OK, we all know every tuning company had the off road disclaimer.

 

[GregO]

@GregO @MAGS1

What do you think about the real issue? Cobb or Lund or SCT or Kooks or any company being held responsible for the misuse of their products?

If I buy and install Hoosier drag slicks ,not DOT approved for street use, on my car. Lets say I get caught in a rain storm and crash into a mini van full of kids.

Who is responsible? Me? Hoosier? Ford, cause it is a mustang?

I didn’t know the EPA was targeting tires.
Now if we’re talking about tire wear and the airborne rubber particulates then I do wonder why the EPA hasn’t jumped on that issue. Which leads to the reality that EV’s create higher levels of airborne tire rubber particulates in our lower atmosphere.

 

[K4fxd]

I didn’t know the EPA was targeting tires.

Nice deflection, but I now know your mind set. Carry on

 

[GregO]

So why is Cobb liable? Why is it OK, we all know every tuning company had the off road disclaimer.

Because that Off Road disclaimer of the past is in the ash heap. It doesn’t exist and has been amended. The alphabet soup agencies caught onto what the performance manufacturers and its customers were doing with those emissions defeating devices. Cobb decided to continue business as usual and the current laws of the land were broken.

 

[MAGS1]

So why is Cobb liable? Why is it OK, we all know every tuning company had the off road disclaimer.

Do they have that disclaimer though? I have never used their products so I honestly don’t know.

As to why they are being targeted. I really don’t know, apparently the off-road use disclaimer isn’t good enough because it’s still technically violating the law of defeating emissions. That’s the only thing I can think of. Why were catless long tubes pulled off the shelves a couple years ago even they said for off road use only? This is the slippery slope you mentioned earlier. But I again say, it’s easier for these agencies to target the source rather than the end user.

This is probably why Ford has put S650 on lock down and has near complete control over aftermarket power adders and tuning. Because they don’t want to deal with the EPA any more than they already have to.

 

[K4fxd]

Because that Off Road disclaimer of the past is in the ash heap.

Was never passed by congress.

The main point is a company is being held liable for the misuse of it's products.

If you refuse to see this I cannot help you

 

[GregO]

Was never passed by congress.

The main point is a company is being held liable for the misuse of it's products.

If you refuse to see this I cannot help you

The EPA isn’t answering to congress any longer.
You should know that.

 

[shogun32]

The main point is a company is being held liable for the misuse of it's products

They keep trying that against gun, ammo and general aviation. So why not shake down automotive performance ?

 

[K4fxd]

But I again say, it’s easier for these agencies to target the source rather than the end user.

100%

Also Joe six pack does not have the resources to pay the fines. Look at the companies targeted. The fines are enough to hurt them but not bankrupt them.

Money grab?

 

[K4fxd]

The EPA isn’t answering to congress any longer.
You should know that.

Of course I know this, it is 100% wrong.

They keep trying that against gun, ammo and general aviation. So why not shake down automotive performance ?

Auto performance is the only industry that has chosen to roll over.

 

[MAGS1]

100%

Also Joe six pack does not have the resources to pay the fines. Look at the companies targeted. The fines are enough to hurt them but not bankrupt them.

Money grab?

Money grab possibly. But they are enforcing to the letter of the law, whether we agree with it or not. So maybe not a total money grab. Why did they decide that now is the time to start bringing the hammer? Probably has a lot to do with the current EV push and broader climate push.

Cobb did survive and will continue to write tunes, they just can’t write tunes that defeat emissions. I don’t think the EPA is out to put anyone out of business unless they’re repeat, egregious offenders. First time getting caught, like you said, enough to hurt but they will continue on. If it happens again, they may not be so lucky.

 

[MAGS1]

They keep trying that against gun, ammo and general aviation. So why not shake down automotive performance ?

The automotive performance industry lobby isn’t nearly the the size of those you mention. And because of that, their $$ influence isn’t as strong as the lobby they’re going up against (the climate lobby probably makes the gun lobby look like poors with regards to funding). $$ is the only thing that seems to speak in DC which is truly unfortunate because those of us that aren’t in the 0.1% are left in the dust.

 

[K4fxd]

EPA just one day decided no production car can be made for off road race use only.

Letter of the law, Saturday night circle track racing is the next obvious target. Most cars in the US racing on these tracks were at one time a production car. Some are retired Nascar chassis but not many.

However I doubt this would ever happen.........more than once.

SCOTUS needs to get involved and without the industry banding together it will never get there. Instead of paying these fines they could all pony up for a mutual defense fund and get it in front of the court.

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