TDStuart Tuning Adventure

[K4fxd]

Yea, the tune I took screen shots of and posted has IMRC locked out

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[markmurfie]

Yea, the tune I took screen shots of and posted has IMRC locked out

Calibrating for IMRC is .... not worth the time lol.

 

[K4fxd]

Lund......

 

[engineermike]

Calibrating for IMRC is .... not worth the time lol.

I think this probably true in @tdstuart case. The fuel economy difference isn’t going to pay back for him anyway. Just commanding them open all the time would allow for using only 5 total mapped points.

Regarding your mapped point layout suggestion, I think one difference between our plans is that you’re accounting for cams not always following commanded or falling on snap lines, whereas I’m prioritizing reducing mapped point count. Also, I do not believe your mp3 or 8 are really necessary to handle OP as long as OP cam angles are commanded along your 6-7 snap line. If you want to try different exhaust cam angles, you’d just move mp6 and 7 vertically to match OP. This is how Roush gen3 does it and it works really well. When you want to calibrate wot you only have to contend with 2 mapped points.

 

[tdstuart]

You have it correct. I format it to the way HPT displays it.



Yes now is the time to change the RPMs to what ever you want, and make it cover the RPM range you plan on using, you are going to need to tune it all anyway. Just share your tune file with the most recent changes and the logs you take on that tune file, and everyone will be kept in the loop.

Here's the tune file I am working on

Map points haven't been locked to anything specific now, I just set it up this way as it was giving good drivability till I could take time to tune the SD model

 

[tdstuart]

500 would be used when RPMs are actually 0-500. It would then interpolate 500-625. ect.

When coming up with the coeffecients, I try to do +/-250RPM from the RPM value I have the cell populated for.

For example, 1600 I filtered out 1350-1850, but when it didnt return coeffecients I had to expand and filter 1100- 2100RPM.

PCM tec shows table options like you can expand the table but it doesn't seem to let me. Not sure if this is a bug. Will probably just have to rescale the current amount of table options.

 

[tdstuart]

@markmurfie

Thoughts on me changing Base EVC, IVO, and IVC values before tuning SD? I know the values you and I got are different.

I don't think I can change them to match exactly but the thought was I could get it closer. Thoughts on any benefits of doing this? It would make the camshaft adv/ret more accurate to what the stock camshafts would have done. Not sure if it will matter to the car after I adjust the SD model.

Also if I lock the imrc open and tune the SD model are you recommending I change the mapped point layout completely? Or keep the mapped point layout and the values, lock to mapped points I want to tune, tune them, then adjust the snapped points and OP cam angles to what I want?

 

[Pistol_91]

If your OP angles differ from that of any of your mapped points you're using. It will blend them. If you want to avoid blending, then put your OP angles to match whatever MPs you have for WOT.

 

[tdstuart]

If your OP angles differ from that of any of your mapped points you're using. It will blend them. If you want to avoid blending, then put your OP angles to match whatever MPs you have for WOT.

yes

 

[markmurfie]

@markmurfie

Thoughts on me changing Base EVC, IVO, and IVC values before tuning SD? I know the values you and I got are different.

I don't think I can change them to match exactly but the thought was I could get it closer. Thoughts on any benefits of doing this? It would make the camshaft adv/ret more accurate to what the stock camshafts would have done. Not sure if it will matter to the car after I adjust the SD model.

Also if I lock the imrc open and tune the SD model are you recommending I change the mapped point layout completely? Or keep the mapped point layout and the values, lock to mapped points I want to tune, tune them, then adjust the snapped points and OP cam angles to what I want?

Thoughts on me changing Base EVC, IVO, and IVC values before tuning SD?
They were not used in 11-14 cars the same as 15+ and in the older cars all base events were set to 0* so im not sure having accurate base values are that important. No tables axis's use a base + phase angle value that I am aware of its all just the direct cam phase angle +/- from a base 0 position. Logs dont report these base positions + phase angle, only the phase angle * +/-, so im not sure why having these accurate or 0 woud be needed or effect anything.
I can only think of the IVC being used for is this reference in the blow through patent "effective pushback ratio characterizing a portion of a cylinder mixture that may be pushed into the engine intake manifold from the cylinder as the piston moves in a direction toward the cylinder head while the intake valve is open. The pushback ratio may be determined as the greater of a constant multiplied by the physical ratio of cylinder volume displaced by the piston moving from the bottom dead center (BDC) to the intake valve closing (IVC) point, to the total cylinder displacement volume of the cylinder and the pushback ratio computed from engine mapping." This is discussing a dynamic maximum volumetric efficiency of the cylinder or maximum air charge that the cylinder can hold at a give manifold pressure, both would be determined at a dynamic IVC. In my screen shots I used a static 100% VE slope.

To be breif I would not put to much weight on these values effecting anything tuning related.

Also if I lock the imrc open and tune the SD model are you recommending I change the mapped point layout completely? Or keep the mapped point layout and the values, lock to mapped points I want to tune, tune them, then adjust the snapped points and OP cam angles to what I want?
What you are calibrating in the tables will be the same either way to choose to approach it. Some people find it easier to start from scratch with a simplified HDFX, other will keep what they have and just modify the existing mapped points to fine tune to their modifications. Typically FI applications will simplfy and start from scratch, and NA will keep what they can of the existing mapped points.
You'll quickly find your distances in the index array axis's are the limit for each mode, not how many mapped points you map, so its limited in how complicated it actually gets.

 

[markmurfie]

PCM tec shows table options like you can expand the table but it doesn't seem to let me. Not sure if this is a bug. Will probably just have to rescale the current amount of table options.

If the axis has a name and isn't a "null axis" you can double click the name and it brings you to the table to modify the values.
It shows you which cells they are interpolating the values for. In this case you can have 19 axis values, but 2,7,8,9,14, and 18 where not filled out directly just interpolated. you can not expand it beyond the 19 axis values, just remove any interpolated values or interpolate all 19 values between two RPMs you choose.

 

[tdstuart]

Thoughts on me changing Base EVC, IVO, and IVC values before tuning SD?
They were not used in 11-14 cars the same as 15+ and in the older cars all base events were set to 0* so im not sure having accurate base values are that important. No tables axis's use a base + phase angle value that I am aware of its all just the direct cam phase angle +/- from a base 0 position. Logs dont report these base positions + phase angle, only the phase angle * +/-, so im not sure why having these accurate or 0 woud be needed or effect anything.
I can only think of the IVC being used for is this reference in the blow through patent "effective pushback ratio characterizing a portion of a cylinder mixture that may be pushed into the engine intake manifold from the cylinder as the piston moves in a direction toward the cylinder head while the intake valve is open. The pushback ratio may be determined as the greater of a constant multiplied by the physical ratio of cylinder volume displaced by the piston moving from the bottom dead center (BDC) to the intake valve closing (IVC) point, to the total cylinder displacement volume of the cylinder and the pushback ratio computed from engine mapping." This is discussing a dynamic maximum volumetric efficiency of the cylinder or maximum air charge that the cylinder can hold at a give manifold pressure, both would be determined at a dynamic IVC. In my screen shots I used a static 100% VE slope.

To be breif I would not put to much weight on these values effecting anything tuning related.

Would changing the evc, ivo, and ivc affect the real camshaft position given the same vct positions?

 

[tdstuart]

If the axis has a name and isn't a "null axis" you can double click the name and it brings you to the table to modify the values.
It shows you which cells they are interpolating the values for. in this case you can have 19 axis values, but 2,7,8,9,14, and 18 where not filled out directly just interpolated. you can not expand it beyond the 19 axis values, just remove any interpolated values or interpolate all 19 values between two RPMs you choose.

Yep this is what I was looking at. Try and see if you can expand it past 19. I tried and any past 19 wouldn't show when I went to the actual table to modify.

 

[markmurfie]

Would changing the evc, ivo, and ivc affect the real camshaft position given the same vct positions?

NO

 

[markmurfie]

Yep this is what I was looking at. Try and see if you can expand it past 19. I tried and any past 19 wouldn't show when I went to the actual table to modify.

Excuse me it should be 20 total cells. 0-19, 0 being one of the available cells.

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