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PP2 Cooling Upgrades? Per criticism…

Redmcguire

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If you want a fun backroads type of car that sees mostly street use and maybe some track use, I would actually suggest a set of 19x10 wheels with 285 tires. No spacers or added camber required. 305's on a street car is pretty overkill.

If you do indeed want PP2 performance, then 19x11 w/ 305 tires is the only option.
Back to cooling. You hood looks nice. How do you like your hood? I have and N/A set up. Don't (think) I currently have engine cooling issues. But I'm building in the option to get a supercharger by doing the needed drive line and suspension upgrades first should I decide to boost. Are you boosted or N/A? Does your hood help solve air flow problems.
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Redmcguire

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11 wheels with around 52-53 offset, 25mm spacers up front with extended ARP studs, camber plates up front with around -2.5-2.7 front camber, up to -1.6 camber in the rear - this setup will give you rotatable set of wheels that don't poke, wear well on track and can be used on street just fine. If you want to add some protection for your car paintwork, I strongly recommend to add a set of rokblokz flaps.
Great, thanks.
 

tosha

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Back to cooling. You hood looks nice. How do you like your hood? I have and N/A set up. Don't (think) I currently have engine cooling issues. But I'm building in the option to get a supercharger by doing the needed drive line and suspension upgrades first should I decide to boost. Are you boosted or N/A? Does your hood help solve air flow problems.
I have supercharged PP1. Long story short - if you want a dual duty car that you would track multiple times a year, don't boost it unless you are willing to put a LOT of time, resources and work into cooling mods through trial and error process.

@Ewheels has NA car.
 

Ewheels

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Back to cooling. You hood looks nice. How do you like your hood? I have and N/A set up. Don't (think) I currently have engine cooling issues. But I'm building in the option to get a supercharger by doing the needed drive line and suspension upgrades first should I decide to boost. Are you boosted or N/A? Does your hood help solve air flow problems.
Race Louvers vents are the best (uh oh, I made a bold, blanket statement. I'm sure the argumentative comments will start rolling in now 😆 )
But really, Race Louvers makes the best vents in the market. They do CFD and real wind tunnel testing on all their products and put the results on their website.
Hood vents are only part of the cooling solution. Oil cooler + radiator + ducting + venting is the real solution. Depending on how hard you push the car, how long you want to push the car, and how hot of ambient temps you want to drive in will dictate how much cooling you will actually need.
That being said, I would only address cooling concerns when you know you have a cooling issue. No sense trying to fix a problem you don't have.

As @tosha said, adding boost will only make your cooling issues exponentially more difficult. Most track folks avoid boost because it simply makes too much heat; not that it can't be done though.
Think of it simply as this: the more power you make, the more cooling you need. If you are having cooling issues at 400 hp, just think how bad your situation will be at 600-700 hp
 

Redmcguire

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Race Louvers vents are the best (uh oh, I made a bold, blanket statement. I'm sure the argumentative comments will start rolling in now 😆 )
But really, Race Louvers makes the best vents in the market. They do CFD and real wind tunnel testing on all their products and put the results on their website.
Hood vents are only part of the cooling solution. Oil cooler + radiator + ducting + venting is the real solution. Depending on how hard you push the car, how long you want to push the car, and how hot of ambient temps you want to drive in will dictate how much cooling you will actually need.
That being said, I would only address cooling concerns when you know you have a cooling issue. No sense trying to fix a problem you don't have.

As @tosha said, adding boost will only make your cooling issues exponentially more difficult. Most track folks avoid boost because it simply makes too much heat; not that it can't be done though.
Think of it simply as this: the more power you make, the more cooling you need. If you are having cooling issues at 400 hp, just think how bad your situation will be at 600-700 hp
Thanks. I'll take the incremental approach. I'm running what Ford Racing used to call "Power Pack 2" on my 18- now called "Calibration Kit." The 18 manifold doesn't need to be upgraded like the 17s. I kept their tune due to warranty. It actually puts the power where I want it for current street applications. Once warranty is out of the picture, I'll likely increase N/A by long tubes headers, thermostat, and a different tune. This should be like a PP2 plus set up, but will wait to see if heat is an issue like you suggested. Mostly backroads and a track day a couple times a year. Looking for modest improvements in 0/60 (sub 4) / Quarter (high 10s?), and road courses.
 

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Redmcguire

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I have supercharged PP1. Long story short - if you want a dual duty car that you would track multiple times a year, don't boost it unless you are willing to put a LOT of time, resources and work into cooling mods through trial and error process.

@Ewheels has NA car.
Great advice. This is the way I'm leaning having talked about this a little with Ford Racing and with my local mustang performance shop. Sometimes hard to let the kids dust me with their automatic and boosted ponies- press the gas, it goes strait... But I actually like to shift (I like controlling the corners because I ride motorcycles too). Plus, I have other things I can do with 10-15K :)
 

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Thanks. I'll take the incremental approach. I'm running what Ford Racing used to call "Power Pack 2" on my 18- now called "Calibration Kit." The 18 manifold doesn't need to be upgraded like the 17s. I kept their tune due to warranty. It actually puts the power where I want it for current street applications. Once warranty is out of the picture, I'll likely increase N/A by long tubes headers, thermostat, and a different tune. This should be like a PP2 plus set up, but will wait to see if heat is an issue like you suggested. Mostly backroads and a track day a couple times a year. Looking for modest improvements in 0/60 (sub 4) / Quarter (high 10s?), and road courses.
If it helps at all, a lot of the track guys I know go with intake, headers, cat back, E85, and tune. This gets about 480 whp (roughly 530-540 crank) with little negative impact to cooling
 

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Pp2 and pp1 have same cooling. That is why pp2 has not advantage for track usage. (Pp2 has bigger wheels. Basically the first mod u do anyway)

More than trans, i would focus on engine oil cooling. With an after market kit.

Trans cooling in manual is not a priority. (you can buy a scoop to bring some aur around it. )

Diff cooler there are some options.
Mach1 is one of that. The fulltilt boogie one is a good option. The kit comes complete.

IMG_20221228_143240_577.webp
 

Redmcguire

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If it helps at all, a lot of the track guys I know go with intake, headers, cat back, E85, and tune. This gets about 480 whp (roughly 530-540 crank) with little negative impact to cooling
Exactly where I am headed post warranty. Already have the intake and exhaust mods (minus catted long tubes). I've read there are a number of tunes that are E85 and 93 flexible/compatible that should get me close to that mark. Some recommend solid drive shaft and GT350 half shafts too.
 

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Pp2 and pp1 have same cooling. That is why pp2 has not advantage for track usage. (Pp2 has bigger wheels. Basically the first mod u do anyway)

More than trans, i would focus on engine oil cooling. With an after market kit.

Trans cooling in manual is not a priority. (you can buy a scoop to bring some aur around it. )

Diff cooler there are some options.
Mach1 is one of that. The fulltilt boogie one is a good option. The kit comes complete.

IMG_20221228_143240_577.jpg
Thanks. keep an eye on engine temps as I increase heat. Rosh vents the quarter panels, some run louvers on top. Beyond airflow and oil viscosity, you think the PP1/2 engine cooler is insufficient? Wrapping rear exhaust around the diff and running redline in the diff.
 

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tosha

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Beyond airflow and oil viscosity, you think the PP1/2 engine cooler is insufficient?
you need to go out there and set a baseline. there's tons of factors in play - how you drive, when you shift, track layout, elevation changes, ambient temps play huge role, and on and on. the setup that @Flyhalf has would be an overkill for most people, just because how much skill and courage he has to push the car 😄 .

if you are just starting track driving, don't overthink it. you won't be able to push the limits of this car unless you have exceptional driving talent. take the car out to a track, see how it behaves and go from there. when I took my PP1 to my first ever event, the car was bone stock and it did just fine. if you see temps creeping up more than you want, just move your shifting point from 7k to 6.5k RPM. it won't make any big difference for your HPDE experience, and you'll see temps go back to tolerable. listen to your instructor )))

once you do couple events, you will know much better where you need to put your money and effort.
 

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unless your track looks something like this (20 turns over 3miles), and you are driving in 100F ambient, I doubt you even need exhaust wraps.
1675872478905.webp


I've been doing this for couple years and I am still yet to do anything with diff cooling. I use a Milwaukee fan to cool down the diff between sessions if it gets on a hot side, and it never overheated during a session so far.
 

Redmcguire

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you need to go out there and set a baseline. there's tons of factors in play - how you drive, when you shift, track layout, elevation changes, ambient temps play huge role, and on and on. the setup that @Flyhalf has would be an overkill for most people, just because how much skill and courage he has to push the car 😄 .

if you are just starting track driving, don't overthink it. you won't be able to push the limits of this car unless you have exceptional driving talent. take the car out to a track, see how it behaves and go from there. when I took my PP1 to my first ever event, the car was bone stock and it did just fine. if you see temps creeping up more than you want, just move your shifting point from 7k to 6.5k RPM. it won't make any big difference for your HPDE experience, and you'll see temps go back to tolerable. listen to your instructor )))

once you do couple events, you will know much better where you need to put your money and effort.
Sound advice. Looking forward to it too. I'll set that baseline as soon as my FP Track Suspension and wheels/tires arrive. Think I've decided on 10" (285) set up too- like the added performance and the ability to rotate tires... Thanks. Not sure skid pad is much different between 285 and 305. I already pull a lateral G routinely on my PP1 set up.
 

Redmcguire

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unless your track looks something like this (20 turns over 3miles), and you are driving in 100F ambient, I doubt you even need exhaust wraps.
1675872478905.png


I've been doing this for couple years and I am still yet to do anything with diff cooling. I use a Milwaukee fan to cool down the diff between sessions if it gets on a hot side, and it never overheated during a session so far.
Great reference point. The $100.00 bucks may be all I need on the rear diff. I'll stop there with the cooling until I determine the need.
 

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I'll set that baseline as soon as my FP Track Suspension and wheels/tires arrive.
I'm sure you have it in your list, but will still mention it - while you have suspension taken apart, add a set of camber plates to the front. you don't want to pay for the same job to take everything apart twice. :)
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