Gradual upgrades vs. Performance Package?

[Emt1581]

It's a little early for me to be doing much more than putting a few cars on the short list for eventual shopping. But here's what I'm thinking.

The PP is not in the same league as the 5th gen Camaro's 1LE package, nor was it ever really intended to be. The 6th gen SS is going to be tough enough competition unless Ford tweaks the details of the PP a bit.

Anyway . . . some detail thoughts

The GT Performance Package includes:
• Strut-tower brace
• K brace
Nice to have. But the STB belongs much lower on any DIY'er mod list than where it usually ends up

The STB isn't something I would have put on my list of needs but, as with some of the other pieces...I'll take it.

• Larger radiator
If you ever track your car or engage in extended stints of hard driving on hot days, you'll want this. For forced induction (not something I'm much interested in personally), I'm betting you'll want this and then some.

Either way, the larger radiator isn't a bad thing.

• Unique chassis tuning
• Upsized rear sway bar
• Heavy-duty front springs
These all seem to be saying the same thing, and the thing here is whether you want to just take what Ford feels is good enough for their target PP customer or develop something that suits you individually a little better. There have been bouncy ride complaints I think with both the PP and the non-PP, that different spring rate choices and better shocks/struts ought to be able to solve.

Here's my main concern with NOT going PP...Last year we had a 2003 Buick LeSabre. For what it was, it has some pickup to it. However, when getting up around triple digits, it bounced up and down so much you'd have thought the springs were shot. And turns were just as bad. Maneuvered like a row boat. I need to test a non-PP but I do NOT want a re-play of that experience!!

• Interior gauge pack (oil pressure and vacuum)
Oil pressure is semi-useful at best, and probably the only reason you'd care about vacuum is if you're specifically driving for best mpg

Honestly, I could do without these functionally but they look kinda cool on the interior

• Brembo™ six-piston front brake calipers with larger rotors
These will generally require 19" or larger wheels. There are a couple of 18's that supposedly clear, but not many.

These brakes were just plain amazing during the test drive!! No other way to put it. But the wheel size...19-19.5's is what comes with it. What size is optimal and will the S550 handle it?

• Unique 19” x 9”(F) 19” x 9.5” (R) Ebony Black-Painted Aluminum Wheels
• Optional 19”x 9”(F) 19” x 9.5” (R) Luster Nickel Aluminum Wheels
• 255/40R19 (F) 275/40R19(R) summer-only tires*
If you're any more than semi-serious about handling, these won't be enough. Not wide enough, and there are definitely better tire choices.

And the wheel sizing/tires are my biggest complaint with the PP. It's honestly the primary thing the decision to PP/not-PP is teetering on, that's how much they annoy me. I know others have said staggering is not a big deal to them, but long term, it's a big deal to me. Can't rotate, spares are a pain in the ass and require a full size front to fit both, tires are going to wear out within a year or so. But at the same time, I'm not planning on doing any sort of competing, racing, etc. But again, if I don't go PP, THIS will be why...the wheel setup.

• Unique EPAS, ABS and stability control tuning
This is a very good thing if you want less interference from the nannies without having to shut them off completely.

To be honest, I'm a total newb when it comes to tuning. I know you need to have it done for Nitrous, Turbo's and Superchargers. I know they hook it up to a dyno and use fancy computers...other than that...

• 3.73 TORSEN® rear axle
The Torsen is the kind of differential you want for most everything . . . except drag racing and similar driving (Torsens tend to be fragile when used that way).

3.73's are kind of short for driving where you aren't using the upper rpm range at all. They're terrible for autocrosses where peak speeds can exceed what's possible in 2nd. But they might be OK on the big tracks where you're rarely going to drop down below 3rd or ever need 6th.

While it was weird to have to shift so early from 1st to 2nd, it's not a huge deal and from what I've seen others mention, no one's really had anything bad to say about the Torsen or the gearing. Works for me.

Norm

Hope that worked. Took a while to type!

EDIT: Standby...the color is horrible.

-Emt1581

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[blk2015]

Gradual Mods

My "Pony" adventure started out in mid December of last year. I wanted the new GT350 and once I became aware of the additional dealer markup I told them to forget it. Just wasn't going to give a dealership money for "nothing". They had new 2016's there with the PP, but they also had one 2015 Premium on the floor with the anniversary package. It soon became obvious that I could score the Black 2015 for a heck of a deal. That's when I started to look at the real Shelby GT, which for all purposes seem to be a hell of a car, even more so than the GT350. I did the research and began to put together a list of what Shelby does to the car. That's the path I'm taking. So far I have replaced the entire suspension with what Shelby uses, the Ford Tack handling package. This package is more substantial and performs better than the PP package suspension. I also added the GT Strut Tower Brace. Wow what a difference when combined with a Shelby staggered wheel setup and Mickey Thompson UHP Street Tires. No noticeable body roll what so ever and the nose no longer jumps when getting on it. Next, I went with a Borla ATAK exhaust. Recently I have added a BBK CAI and an oil separator, along with custom engine and coil cover just to make it look a bit nicer under the hood. So far I'm happy with the car. Next round will be the Wilwood brake systems.

 

[Emt1581]

My "Pony" adventure started out in mid December of last year. I wanted the new GT350 and once I became aware of the additional dealer markup I told them to forget it. Just wasn't going to give a dealership money for "nothing". They had new 2016's there with the PP, but they also had one 2015 Premium on the floor with the anniversary package. It soon became obvious that I could score the Black 2015 for a heck of a deal. That's when I started to look at the real Shelby GT, which for all purposes seem to be a hell of a car, even more so than the GT350. I did the research and began to put together a list of what Shelby does to the car. That's the path I'm taking. So far I have replaced the entire suspension with what Shelby uses, the Ford Tack handling package. This package is more substantial and performs better than the PP package suspension. I also added the GT Strut Tower Brace. Wow what a difference when combined with a Shelby staggered wheel setup and Mickey Thompson UHP Street Tires. No noticeable body roll what so ever and the nose no longer jumps when getting on it. Next, I went with a Borla ATAK exhaust. Recently I have added a BBK CAI and an oil separator, along with custom engine and coil cover just to make it look a bit nicer under the hood. So far I'm happy with the car. Next round will be the Wilwood brake systems.

So what you did is went base and are planning on adding some GT350 parts performance-wise right?

When compared to the PP, I'm sure the performance/driving will be improved but any estimates on cost? Just seeing if it's anywhere remotely close or even around double of what the PP costs in the first place.

You mentioned the oil separator...is that the same as the oil catch can? I've seen some say they aren't needed. Others say they catch enough that it's definitely worth it.

Really what I come back to is the wheels. Earlier last month someone suggested finding someone willing to trade their front wheels for my (future) rears...that also has a performance pack....and is in my area. Not sure I'll have an easy time of doing that to make the 4 corners equal but it would seem to remove any hesitation about the performance pack because, at the end of the day, it does seem to be a great value for the money compared to slowing customizing the car. And it still leaves the option to customize over time.

Thanks

-Emt1581

 

[derrick603]

And the wheel sizing/tires are my biggest complaint with the PP. It's honestly the primary thing the decision to PP/not-PP is teetering on, that's how much they annoy me. I know others have said staggering is not a big deal to them, but long term, it's a big deal to me. Can't rotate, spares are a pain in the ass and require a full size front to fit both, tires are going to wear out within a year or so. But at the same time, I'm not planning on doing any sort of competing, racing, etc. But again, if I don't go PP, THIS will be why...the wheel setup.
-Emt1581

Does this really matter all that much? Sure, you can't rotate the tires, but you don't have to replace all four at the same time either. My current car has staggered wheels, and I replace the rears about twice as often as the fronts, so none of my tires get replaced until they're worn.

 

[paul123]

Does this really matter all that much? Sure, you can't rotate the tires, but you don't have to replace all four at the same time either. My current car has staggered wheels, and I replace the rears about twice as often as the fronts, so none of my tires get replaced until they're worn.

if you are doing it right, you burn up the rear tires before the front. No need to rotate

that reminds me though, I want to buy a tire depth gauge, just for fun

 

[GTP]

...
So more money up front with the PP or less money up front with more spent in the long run and a lot of time in labor. What's your logic either way?

The PP is a great value, as everyone knows. Ultimately I decided on automatic GT, so no PP for me.

The #1 thing that will improve the performance of my car is a new set of non-stagger 19x10" wheels and tires. That alone is a little more than the PP option itself. If I had the PP, and still wanted these wheels, then I would have to sell the PP wheels.

So I am going the gradual upgrade route that will cost me 2-3x what the PP option would have (not including the up charge for the auto trans). Ultimately it should have even higher performance. But the journey will be at a pace that my learning and wallet can tolerate.

OP, you should visit the tech forum section, suspensions sub-forum. There is enough info to make your head spin. Put on the FRPP track pack suspension for $1100 and call it a day. Or put on some full-blown exotic set of adjustable coilovers for $6000. Or anywhere in between.

It's your journey.

 

[blk2015]

No... Not pursuing the GT350 route. The Shelby GT is an entirely different car. In regards to the PP price being better... You can't build a great car for $2500-2900, or whatever the PP option costs. The 20" Shelby wheels I put on my car cost quite a bit more than that. I think you are confusing the Ford Shelby GT350 with the real Shelby GT.

 

[Blk2015GT]

=In regards to the PP price being better... You can't build a great car for $2500-2900, or whatever the PP option costs.

True but if a base GT is a 1 and custom parts all put together is a 10 the PP is still only a 5.

It had to be made docile enough to sell to the masses. You will get a MUCH better setup using aftermarket parts; although obviously at probably 2 times the cost.

The highest cost item on the PP is the wheels/tires, which the PP still aren't the best wheel and the tires are pretty crappy as well known. The Brembos you can get the parts for about $800, you can buy a strut tower brace for about $100-150, springs $200, sway bars $300. PP radiator is around $500. If you dont want 3.73s to begin with you can get 3.55 or the 3.31 from the factory and build on that. The PP parts will costs you about $2,000 and then add wheels/tires.

Sure $4,000 ($3500-3600 really as you can sell your base GT wheels for a few hundred bucks- I did) vs $2500, but a much better setup in handling/suspension.

 

[15wile]

Depends. PP is a great value. Buying that sh*t separate costs a lot more money. If you want the best stock GT you can buy, premium + PP is the way to go. But if you don't care to buy those things, or you are going to replace all of it *anyway* with your own upgrade path, then don't buy it.

Me personally... the only thing I really wanted were the gears. I didn't give a sh*t about the rest. And I can do gears for a lot cheaper.

 

[BmacIL]

Hope that worked. Took a while to type!

EDIT: Standby...the color is horrible.

-Emt1581

FYI, the non-PP is still very stable over 100 mph. It was weird (but cool!) how smooth and composed it is at speeds like that. The PP is even more sorted.

I think you should get the PP, get a set of PP rears for the front to get a square setup, and then decide if you need more. It's quite a good setup out of the box, somewhat compromised to deliver acceptable ride quality on the street, but still definitely track capable.

 

[15wile]

FYI, the non-PP is still very stable over 100 mph. It was weird (but cool!) how smooth and composed it is at speeds like that. The PP is even more sorted.

I've had this thing north of 120 and it felt perfectly smooth and stable. Didn't even realize it until I looked at the speedo. It's very composed at high speeds, I have no worries at all.

I mean, if I were tracking the car, then maybe. But I'd probably go beefier aftermarket parts for that anyway.

 

[blk2015]

Not trying to get in an argument here, just stating the facts. If you want a car that will truly handle like a "real" Shelby you have to use the parts they are using. This is why they take your car and ask anywhere from 30K to 37K to complete it. If you do it yourself, purchasing the parts they use, you will end up having a car that's very close to what they build, and it won't cost you 70K. When I'm done I'll have about 52K into the car, substantially less. You talking about a car that will handle better, brake better, and have about 235hp more than the Ford version. If your into build a great car this platform give you lots of options. I will be moving the car to Utah in about 4 months. There you can drive a car like that. Here in the midwest basically it's one shift and your going to jail. Happy building!

 

[Norm Peterson]

I've had this thing north of 120 and it felt perfectly smooth and stable. Didn't even realize it until I looked at the speedo. It's very composed at high speeds,
I have no worries at all.

I mean, if I were tracking the car, then maybe. But I'd probably go beefier aftermarket parts for that anyway.

Tracking the car is different. Would you trust its composure equally well at 100+ mph through a 45° 1+g kink in the road while rolling the right-side tires
over the red/white striped curbing as you're beginning to feed in a little power?

Norm

 

[15wile]

Tracking the car is different. Would you trust its composure equally well at 100+ mph through a 45° 1+g kink in the road while rolling the right-side tires
over the red/white striped curbing as you're beginning to feed in a little power?

You won't get any argument from me. But I wouldn't trust the PP GT for that, either. Would want either a GT350R or build up the car with some good aftermarket parts.

But how many folks track their car in any kind of serious event? I've dragged this car a few times, but never once taken it to a track event. Maybe someday, but even then... would be for fun. Nothing serious.

As a DD, stock regular GT is way more than anybody needs, even most Mustang guys. I remember one of the reviews (C&D I think) mentioned that the GT PP easily outhandled the Boss 302. Not too much of a stretch to think the regular GT probably outdoes the previous gen track pack, though I'd be interested to see the comparison.

Bottom line: if you're a track guy, at a minimum, go GT PP. Ideally aftermarket or GT350R. If you're not, pardon my French... who gives a sh*t?

 

[paul123]

Tracking the car is different. Would you trust its composure equally well at 100+ mph through a 45° 1+g kink in the road while rolling the right-side tires
over the red/white striped curbing as you're beginning to feed in a little power?

do people do that in real life? I do that in Forza and end up in the grass

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