CFTP Wing

[Mayberry]

I will be trading my base wing plus $5000 for a CFTP wing. Comments/opinions would be appreciated, thanks.

I think Jaime said this perfectly: "it is your money, and only you have to be happy."

You asked for comments and opinions, and everyone will have one based on personal bias. For me, I agree with Jaime that I would prefer to have OEM everything. There is value you in that to me. Wing, mounts, hardware... I would be willing to pay more. I would not be willing to pay retail at the parts counter, but again that comes down to "you have to be happy". You are not paying retail, ($5000) and on top of that... there isn't an aftermarket option in the marketplace yet.

If the best aftermarket will be $3000, (and it isn't available) and your option is to pay $5000 for an OEM and get it now... I got OEM all day and twice on Sundays.

And I have no idea what the vin of the car has to do with anything? I guess if you have the wrong vin you can't use OEM wings?

JMO, which is what the OP asked for.

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[Jmeo]

I dont care jamie. I'm not trying to do so. Don't you think that its interesting that tobs mounts are aluminum? Ill wait for the answer.

Enjoy your wing and I hope it does something for you. Me, personally, I was a little underwhelmed by how the CF mounts were designed and manufactured. I sent kent and Charlie gasket seals for the design deficiencies.

I also find the height of the oem mounts to be a compromise for aesthetics over function. You don't see the GT4 wing sitting so low above the decklid, do you?

So I welcome further discussion from knowledgeable people such as Tob. Not so much from people like you with your biased opinion towards a product that belongs on a car with a different VIN. I welcome informed discussion based upon engineering and aerodynamic application, not aesthitics and looks.

Let's try this again......

Goodnight jamie

I’m also sick of the dead horse in the room, so this is the last time I’m gonna kick it.

You keep referencing a VIN’d CFTP car like anyone cares that our cars didn’t come with one. Anyone and their grandmother can buy one, it’s not an exclusive car. It’s a VIN, not a CSM.

I remember the discussion about how people were getting water into the trunk. I also think it is a good idea to put a rubber gasket between the mount and trunk lid. I know you think it’s a design flaw, but it’s easily correctable and I believe almost every spoiler/wing mount could benefit from the same thing. Even Tob used them on his aluminum mount. I also think the center headliner dome light assembly is a bad design, but they didn’t call and ask my opinion before they stamped the final approval.

There is nothing wrong with an aluminum bracket/mount for the unpteenth time. My one and only point to the OP was to point out that the ones that come the OEM wing are painted crushed carbon fiber, and unobtainable, and are one of the things that makes the factory wing different from a replica. Let’s be honest, if a replica manufacturer could reproduce a carbon mount inexpensive enough, they would. They go to aluminum because it’s cheaper and easier to do so. Let me say it again, there is nothing wrong with an aluminum mount.

The height of the wing was not a question by the OP. That’s you spinning a conversation to make a useless point. I hope you have a fantastic day Tom, I know I will.

To the OP, I whole heartedly apologize for steering this thread the way it went. I only wanted to make you aware of the differences between the two. I, and many others, would jump on the opportunity to get an OEM wing for the deal that you have been offered. Especially in perfect condition! I know of people who have paid double.

The other thing to remember is you are many, many months away (if not a year or more) from getting a replica simply because you would be too far down the wait list to get one. Nobody wants to pay OEM price for the OEM wing, which is why the list for a replica is (rightfully so) long. If the OEM option that you were offered was available to everyone, I can only think of one person that would balk at the deal.

 

[Tomster]

I’m also sick of the dead horse in the room, so this is the last time I’m gonna kick it.

You keep referencing a VIN’d CFTP car like anyone cares that our cars didn’t come with one. Anyone and their grandmother can buy one, it’s not an exclusive car. It’s a VIN, not a CSM.

I remember the discussion about how people were getting water into the trunk. I also think it is a good idea to put a rubber gasket between the mount and trunk lid. I know you think it’s a design flaw, but it’s easily correctable and I believe almost every spoiler/wing mount could benefit from the same thing. Even Tob used them on his aluminum mount. I also think the center headliner dome light assembly is a bad design, but they didn’t call and ask my opinion before they stamped the final approval.

There is nothing wrong with an aluminum bracket/mount for the unpteenth time. My one and only point to the OP was to point out that the ones that come the OEM wing are painted crushed carbon fiber, and unobtainable, and are one of the things that makes the factory wing different from a replica. Let’s be honest, if a replica manufacturer could reproduce a carbon mount inexpensive enough, they would. They go to aluminum because it’s cheaper and easier to do so. Let me say it again, there is nothing wrong with an aluminum mount.

The height of the wing was not a question by the OP. That’s you spinning a conversation to make a useless point. I hope you have a fantastic day Tom, I know I will.

To the OP, I whole heartedly apologize for steering this thread the way it went. I only wanted to make you aware of the differences between the two. I, and many others, would jump on the opportunity to get an OEM wing for the deal that you have been offered. Especially in perfect condition! I know of people who have paid double.

The other thing to remember is you are many, many months away (if not a year or more) from getting a replica simply because you would be too far down the wait list to get one. Nobody wants to pay OEM price for the OEM wing, which is why the list for a replica is (rightfully so) long. If the OEM option that you were offered was available to everyone, I can only think of one person that would balk at the deal.

OK, after re-reading your reply, I have decided there is nothing more to discuss with you on this subject matter.

Maybe in a new thread we can go over the various aspects of these points of disagreements. You are correct about one thing, that enough information was put forth for the OP to make a decision.

If I run out of things to do later on, I may start a thread to discuss the various aspects of the OEM wing. I will say this...... I have one and I'm not impressed.

 

[AngelDeath]

Use the ball end of a small ball peen hammer and tap the cardboard side against your bracket hole. Keep tapping lightly the edge of the hole and it will just about cut a hole out of the cardboard.

Yes but thats a problem as from the under if you tap and its not center then when drilling you can be off center, by using the oil around the gasket and pressing the bracket your guaranteed a dead center hole, plus do remember the bracket isnt completely flat and your way could make the screws off since the cardboard will have to be bent to the bracket, but if it works then it works, its all that matters.

I’m also sick of the dead horse in the room, so this is the last time I’m gonna kick it.

OK, after re-reading your reply, I have decided there is nothing more to discuss with you on this subject matter.

Guys I think both of you need a snickers, seems you guys get nasty when your hungry

 

[Tomster]

And I have no idea what the vin of the car has to do with anything? I guess if you have the wrong vin you can't use OEM wings?

Just to clarify the VIN thing. Back in the GT350R days, very early on, Ford would not charge a crap load of money for a GT350R part (splitter, wing, wheels, etc). I recall that Ford also made available some of the GT350R badging as standalone items. Then along came the posers and Ford quickly jacked up the price of GT350R specific parts to make it cost prohibitive to turn a GT350 into a GT350R. If you wanted the front badge, you now had to buy the whole grill. Need the rear badge? You had to buy the whole finish panel. Some people did it anyway and there were various examples of used GT350's being sold as GT350Rs. The only way to truly know you were buying a GT350R was through the VIN. The same goes with the GT500. I have had discussions with people directly in the industry pertaining to all the CF parts associated with the CFTP. I know for a fact how excessively overpriced the wing and wheels are. That makes turning a 500 into a CFTP not a feasible proposition. With that "protection" built into the system, it also kills the folks who actually bought a CFTP because if our wheels or wing get damaged or stolen, you cant go out an buy a part for a reasonable price.

So back to the question of what does the VIN have to do with anything..... well, nothing and everything...... You can't take a regular 500 and turn it into a CFTP with a wing and wheels. It will never be one for the same reason that you can't go out an buy a bunch of Shelby parts and call your car a Shelby. A Shelby has a CSM and a CFTP has a VIN. Go ahead and buy the wing and wheels and make your car look like a CFTP. There are other subtle differences that separate the two 500s, but throw a wing and wheels onto a 500 and some people think that they are running around in a very rare allocated car. Why not just buy a CFTP? Many might say that is not what they are trying to do. Ford has gone out of their way to over price these items to keep people from doing exactly this.

This may or may not have anything to do with the OP or anyone else's desire to get the wing, but it is a point of discussion. Again, if someone wants to pay a boat load of money for a Chinese CF item that has mediocre quality, have at it. Jamie is right about one thing. It is the OP's money. Just like an ADM, it is that person's decision to spend their money as they see fit.

 

[Tomster]

Guys I think both of you need a snickers, seems you guys get nasty when your hungry

There is more to the story. I'm trying to keep that part out of this, despite the bickering, lol

 

[AngelDeath]

There is more to the story. I'm trying to keep that part out of this, despite the bickering, lol

Then if thats the case, Get a room.

 

[Tomster]

Then if thats the case, Get a room.

It wouldn't be a fair fight, lol

 

[Epiphany]

Are those knockoff aftermarket or are they a well known manufacturer?

I do have a sneaky suspicion that whoever the manufacturer of the aluminum mounts is, did so for a very good reason. I also suspect that may be the way I'd want to do a second wing if it is indeed superior.

The uprights and wing are both from the same company, the one that makes both the GT4 Mustangs as well as the Ford GT. No knockoffs here!

Regarding the material used for the base and upright 6061-T6 aluminum. It's what I would have chosen even if I could have had them in chopped fiber for the same price. Don't get me wrong, the CFTP mounts are gorgeous and an engineering marvel. But the cost and ability to reproduce them if I had to...not my cup of tea. At least until I hit the lottery, that is.

The upright base itself is a beautifully optimized and machined foundation from which to build upon. The upright "ladder" section is 6061-T6 as well, and it fits into a machined slot in the base and is then TIG welded along its perimeter underneath, and in a couple of small spots above.

Note the base and ladder portion...

From underneath, when I was cutting up some rubber gaskets (that's actually the one for the other side, scuffed up for better adhesion). Anyway, you can see the weld stringer that fuses the two pieces together...

The portion at the top of the ladder section (that attaches to the wing itself from the underside) is actually steel - uncertain of the alloy. I prefer this to the CFTP interface at this juncture as it places the ladder section in double shear (vs single shear on the CFTP mount). Overkill? Maybe. But I'm good like that.

The one thing I wasn't fond of with the GT4 wing was some of the fastener sizes chosen. Calcs may show them to have been adequate but I preferred at least an M6 whereas the wing came with much smaller fasteners. I drilled (and tapped where necessary) and used "tamper-proof-ish" fasteners anywhere where they were exposed.

Regarding the gaskets I cut, again I used a reinforced rubber sheet that was or fairly high durometer so it wouldn't compress unevenly.

Two way cement worked very well in bonding the rubber to the base and the gasket will hopefully minimize the potential for any water intrusion via the holes in the decklid that I didn't close up. If any water/condensate does get in between there at least it can exit via those holes too.

All in all, I'm a huge fan of the GT4 mounts from a strength and aesthetic aspect. Tweaked to minimize airflow disruption too. It is minimalist yet very robust. To some maybe not as pretty as the shorter uprights used on the CFTP cars but I'm fine with that.

To the OP, sorry if this has gone a bit off the rails but if I may plead my case. This wing is the result of all the development work that originally went into the fixed wing on the race version of the Ford GT (the airfoil, anyway). It was then optimized for the GT4 car. The engineers that put the CFTP GT500 program together, used this wing to model a more "street friendly" version that while toned down a little, gets the job done. And with a Class A finish to boot whereas the GT4 hardware is more race-oriented (note the adjustable end plates too).

The engineers used the GT4 version you see here early on in development, albeit at a lower elevation...

I learned early on before it went public that Ford planned on using a GT4 wing variant on some version of the GT500 and spoke of it as soon as Ford let it slip (unknowingly) to others at Ford. When a development car showed up in the track parking lot at Mid-Ohio for some IMSA races it was no longer a secret that couldn't be shared.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...ood-vents-up-close.103491/page-4#post-2243728

I still can't believe they used this wing on a production Mustang.

Interesting that the dogbones used on the GT350R are the exact same pieces that are used on the GT4 race wing and are now used on the CFTP wing as well. Ford was never known for commonality when there should have been but thankfully we see it here. Too bad they are so difficult to obtain from Ford or at a reasonable price. So thanks for the aftermarket here for stepping up to the plate in this regard.

And Jaime, I've seen you mention talk from Shelby regarding the hood you have on your wide body and that they told you it was at one time in the works for the GT500. Well that again comes from the GT4 car and the desire to take advantage of the better aero (reducing hood lift was one of a number of goals). While the GT4 CF hood itself was never seriously considered (cost) the functionality was not going to be let go. That black development car sported one that showed just how beneficial it was in testing (as much as the GT4 program had already shown that)...

Sorry for some long winded explanations but a little background never hurt anybody (aside from modern sensitivities). Personally, I see potential where others may see limitation. I see the S550 as a shell and make changes to it as I see fit. I wanted the GT4 wing from the moment I saw one up close at Road Atlanta in 2017. I've had a factory rear seat delete in my last two Shelby's and added one to this one too. Others have their own druthers in this regard and I think that is great. So for you guys seeking out an OEM wing or an aftermarket version I'm excited for you and looking forward to seeing how it works out for you too.

 

[Warpath]

Tob, Insightful as always!! I LUB U buddy!!

 

[Jmeo]

The uprights and wing are both from the same company, the one that makes both the GT4 Mustangs as well as the Ford GT. No knockoffs here!

Regarding the material used for the base and upright 6061-T6 aluminum. It's what I would have chosen even if I could have had them in chopped fiber for the same price. Don't get me wrong, the CFTP mounts are gorgeous and an engineering marvel. But the cost and ability to reproduce them if I had too...not my cup of tea. At least until I hit the lottery, that is.

The upright base itself is a beautifully optimized and machined foundation from which to build upon. The upright "ladder" section is 6061-T6 as well, and it fits into a machined slot in the base and is then TIG welded along its perimeter underneath, and in a couple of small spots above.

Note the base and ladder portion...

From underneath, when I was cutting up some rubber gaskets (that's actually the one for the other side, scuffed up for better adhesion). Anyway, you can see the weld stringer that fuses the two pieces together...

The portion at the top of the ladder section (that attaches to the wing itself from the underside) is actually steel - uncertain of the alloy. I prefer this to the CFTP interface at this juncture as it places the ladder section in double shear (vs single shear on the CFTP mount). Overkill? Maybe. But I'm good like that.

The one thing I wasn't fond of with the GT4 wing was some of the fastener sizes chosen. Calcs may show them to have been adequate but I preferred at least an M6 whereas the wing came with much smaller fasteners. I drilled (and tapped where necessary) and used "tamper-proof-ish" fasteners anywhere where they were exposed.

Regarding the gaskets I cut, again I used a reinforced rubber sheet that was or fairly high durometer so it wouldn't compress unevenly.

Two way cement worked very well in bonding the rubber to the base and the gasket will hopefully minimize the potential for any water intrusion via the holes in the decklid that I didn't close up. If any water/condensate does get in between there at least it can exit via those holes too.

All in all, I'm a huge fan of the GT4 mounts from a strength and aesthetic aspect. Tweaked to minimize airflow disruption too. It is minimalist yet very robust. Too some maybe not as pretty as the shorter uprights used on the CFTP cars but I'm fine with that.

To the OP, sorry if this has gone a bit off the rails but if I may plead my case. This wing is the result of all the development work that originally went into the fixed wing on the race version of the Ford GT (the airfoil, anyway). It was then optimized for the GT4 car. The engineers that put the CFTP GT500 program together, used this wing to model a more "street friendly" version that while toned down a little, gets the job done. And with a Class A finish to boot whereas the GT4 hardware is more race-oriented (note the adjustable end plates too).

The engineers used the GT4 version you see here early on in development, albeit at a lower elevation...

I learned early on before it went public that Ford planned on using a GT4 wing variant on some version of the GT500 and spoke of it as soon as Ford let it slip (unknowingly) to others at Ford. When a development car showed up in the track parking lot at Mid-Ohio for some IMSA races it was no longer a secret that couldn't be shared.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...ood-vents-up-close.103491/page-4#post-2243728

I still can't believe they used this wing on a production Mustang.

Interesting that the dogbones used on the GT350R are the exact same pieces that are used on the GT4 race wing and are now used on the CFTP wing as well. Ford was never known for commonality when there should have been but thankfully we see it here. Too bad they are so difficult to obtain from Ford or at a reasonable price. So thanks for the aftermarket here for stepping up to the plate in this regard.

And Jaime, I've seen you mention talk from Shelby regarding the hood you have on your wide body and that they told you it was at one time in the works for the GT500. Well that again comes from the GT4 car and the desire to take advantage of the better aero (reducing hood lift was one of a number of goals). While the GT4 CF hood itself was never seriously considered (cost) the functionality was not going to be let go. That black development car sported one that showed just how beneficial it was in testing (as much as the GT4 program had already shown that)...

Sorry for some long winded explanations but a little background never hurt anybody (aside from modern sensitivities). Personally, I see potential where others may see limitation. I see the S550 as a shell and make changes to it as I see fit. I wanted the GT4 wing from the moment I saw one up close at Road Atlanta in 2017. I've had a factory rear seat delete in my last two Shelby's and added one to this one too. Others have their own druthers in this regard and I think that is great. So for you guys seeking out an OEM wing or an aftermarket version I'm excited for you and looking forward to seeing how it works out for you too.

As always Tob, great write up and explanation.

 

[Evolvd]

That was a fun read and more info than I knew before so thanks! Just an FYI to the OP, I asked Terrance about a possible Crushed CF replica CFTP wing to match the new hood vents he’s making. He said, somewhat cryptically, he was looking into it. So my fingers are crossed for that option!

 

[Epiphany]

My one and only point to the OP was to point out that the ones that come the OEM wing are painted crushed carbon fiber, and unobtainable, and are one of the things that makes the factory wing different from a replica.

Interestingly enough, the chopped fiber mounts/uprights the factory uses on the CFTP wing are available. Typical of Ford Parts and Service lingo, they use terminology that doesn't help the typical parts guy or the average consumer find what they are looking for. Per SSM 49326, "2020 Mustang GT500 vehicles are equipped with rear (wing) supports that anchor the rear (wing) to the decklid. These supports are now available to be purchased separately from the rear (wing). Part number LR3Z-63442A10-A includes both (wing) supports to service one vehicle."

Ford Retail...

Tasca's price (as an example of a reasonable vendor price in comparison to retail)...

Calling the chopped carbon fiber uprights a "stay" is cringeworthy but the price being asked is much more so. Ford simply doesn't want these being sold (other than for insurance purposes), plain and simple.

 

[Jmeo]

Interestingly enough, the chopped fiber mounts/uprights the factory uses on the CFTP wing are available. Typical of Ford Parts and Service lingo, they use terminology that doesn't help the typical parts guy or the average consumer find what they are looking for. Per SSM 49326, "2020 Mustang GT500 vehicles are equipped with rear (wing) supports that anchor the rear (wing) to the decklid. These supports are now available to be purchased separately from the rear (wing). Part number LR3Z-63442A10-A includes both (wing) supports to service one vehicle."

Ford Retail...

Tasca's price (as an example of a reasonable vendor price in comparison to retail)...

Calling the chopped carbon fiber uprights a "stay" is cringeworthy but the price being asked is much more so. Ford simply doesn't want these being sold (other than for insurance purposes), plain and simple.

I am surprised they are now listing them separately. However, I am not surprised they priced them out of reach. They definitely are trying NOT to sell them, that's for sure. By the way, nice find

 

[Epiphany]

Can't take credit for that. The "Guru" filled me in...

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