GT350R Front Toe Track Alignment - In or Out?

[SgdriskillGT]

The GT350 supplement recommends positive 0.1 total front toe (i.e. toe in) for track alignment of 350R. The usual recommendation for this type of car is a slight negative front toe (i.e. toe out) to help with initial turn-in.


Why does Ford recommend positive front toe? Is this intentional to help with mid-corner understeer instead of turn-in advantage?


Would like to hear thoughts, especially if anyone has on track experience with both positive and negative front toe. @BillyJRacing shot in the dark you might see this haha.

Sponsored

 

[melown]

Also interested. Would you happen to know how it was aligned from the factory? My 19R doesn't have the plates installed yet but i was going to check initial readings before changing it.

 

[BillyJRacing]

Front toe-in improves turn-in response and sharpness.

 

[honeybadger]

In my own testing I've found 1/16-1/8 toe IN is optimal. As Billy said, better turn in. Plus, any toe out on this car always resulted in corded tires on the inside shoulders.

 

[JAJ]

Well, we're talking front wheels, right? The 2016 to 2018 guidance was 0.10 degree toe out for the GT350 and 0.06 degree toe-in for the R. 2019 was 0.10 degree toe in for both, and 2020 is 0.10 degree toe out for both. Go figure.

 

[Flyhalf]

For My 18 gt with stiffer springs before and coilovers after loves toe out 1/8 total (0.29deg)
Rear toe in 1/8
This is pretty big tow out so i wouldn't recommend it for daily drive.

 

[JTVUDOO]

Factory spec for both R and Reg 350 is .10 degree in. Never out, you’ll toast your tires in a month. Toe in is more relative to road speed which toes wheels out from road surface friction. .10 toe in becomes 0.0 at speed.

 

[BeastAR]

GT350
Front
Camber -2.00°
Caster 6.81°
Toe - Total 0.10° toe in

Rear
Camber -2.20°
Toe - Total 0.30° toe in

GT350R
Front
Camber -2.20°
Caster 6.92°
Toe - Total 0.10° toe in

Rear
Camber -1.60°
Toe - Total 0.30° toe in

Track Tire Pressures:

Cold Tire Pressures GT350 and GT350R
Front: 28 psi (1.93 bar)
Rear:
28 psi (1.93 bar)

Hot Tire Pressures GT350 and GT350R
Front: 38 psi (2.62 bar)
Rear: 36 psi (2.48 bar)

(From Supplement...)

 

[JAJ]

GT350
Front
Camber -2.00°
Caster 6.81°
Toe - Total 0.10° toe in

Rear
Camber -2.20°
Toe - Total 0.30° toe in

GT350R
Front
Camber -2.20°
Caster 6.92°
Toe - Total 0.10° toe in

Rear
Camber -1.60°
Toe - Total 0.30° toe in

Track Tire Pressures:

Cold Tire Pressures GT350 and GT350R
Front: 28 psi (1.93 bar)
Rear:
28 psi (1.93 bar)

Hot Tire Pressures GT350 and GT350R
Front: 38 psi (2.62 bar)
Rear: 36 psi (2.48 bar)

(From Supplement...)

My one line summary above covers the toe - 2019 supplement says toe-in, 2020 supplement says the same amount of toe, except it's toe-out. The 2019 and 2020 GT350's are built the same with the same tires, but the settings are different for some reason.

 

[BeastAR]

My one line summary above covers the toe - 2019 supplement says toe-in, 2020 supplement says the same amount of toe, except it's toe-out. The 2019 and 2020 GT350's are built the same with the same tires, but the settings are different for some reason.

Just went ahead and threw all the specs out there.

2020 suspension was updated using the found data from the GT500 suspension. Maybe that's the reason for the change in toe in vs toe out....?

 

[jmn444]

I think that was a misprint, I recall reading that somewhere... my experience with 1/16" toe out was bad inside tire wear, but some of that may have been my driving... mostly track miles and to/from track. seems much better wear at 1/16" in and no noticeable affect on performance to me.

 

[Julio]

After reading a lot, and for track/mountain roads use, I’ll go for

- FRONT : slight positive (0.06) TOE IN, helps reduce understeer
- REAR : some positive TOE IN (0.2) helps increase back stability under exit acceleration or braking.

Would love to try some toe out at the back to see how the back is moving but I guess with +500hp you need some back stability (And it moves already quite a lot)

 

[SgdriskillGT]

I must be reading bad info (there's a lot out there on the interwebs ) which says toe out helps with turn in. I definitely trust this group, so thanks everyone for posting. @BillyJRacing @honeybadger thanks for correcting me.

I ran some great laps at Summit Point Main circuit on Friday, it was so nice to finally get out on track again. I had -.10 total toe up front, so next time I'll change to positive toe.

I'm hoping this change will help with some mid-corner understeer I ran into. Of course the biggest upgrade to fix this is most likely the driver!

 

[Julio]

I must be reading bad info (there's a lot out there on the interwebs ) which says toe out helps with turn in. I definitely trust this group, so thanks everyone for posting. @BillyJRacing @honeybadger thanks for correcting me.

I ran some great laps at Summit Point Main circuit on Friday, it was so nice to finally get out on track again. I had -.10 total toe up front, so next time I'll change to positive toe.

I'm hoping this change will help with some mid-corner understeer I ran into. Of course the biggest upgrade to fix this is most likely the driver!

I'm personally not specialist but find this link VERY usefull to understand the basics:
http://racetrackdriving.com/car-setup/track-alignment/

"On a road course front toe primarily affects eagerness of the car to turn and mid-corner understeer/oversteer balance. A car with front toe out will initiate direction changes more easily than a car with front toe in. A car with significant front toe out will feel "darty": a small movement of the steering wheel will be sufficient to get the car to rotate. A car with positive front toe will tend to track straight even in the presence of minor steering wheel movement, which is why street cars often have a bit of positive front toe aligned into them.

The above discussion assumes a car going straight, with equal weight on left and right tires. When the car is in the middle of a corner, and the weight is transfered to the outside tires, front toe has the opposite effect on handling: front toe out produces understeer and a car that resists mid corner direction changes, while front toe in makes the car darty mid corner and may even cause oversteer under power in front wheel drive cars."

 

[SgdriskillGT]

I'm personally not specialist but find this link VERY usefull to understand the basics:
http://racetrackdriving.com/car-setup/track-alignment/

"On a road course front toe primarily affects eagerness of the car to turn and mid-corner understeer/oversteer balance. A car with front toe out will initiate direction changes more easily than a car with front toe in. A car with significant front toe out will feel "darty": a small movement of the steering wheel will be sufficient to get the car to rotate. A car with positive front toe will tend to track straight even in the presence of minor steering wheel movement, which is why street cars often have a bit of positive front toe aligned into them.

The above discussion assumes a car going straight, with equal weight on left and right tires. When the car is in the middle of a corner, and the weight is transfered to the outside tires, front toe has the opposite effect on handling: front toe out produces understeer and a car that resists mid corner direction changes, while front toe in makes the car darty mid corner and may even cause oversteer under power in front wheel drive cars."

Yea I read this exact article which states front toe-out improves turn in and sharpness. Part of why I'm still a little confused.

But I'm inclined to listen to Billy as he's a pro driver and test driver for Ford's development of the GT350R.

Sponsored