Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[Stuntman]

Yea thats just the ZL1, what about the ZL 1LE? Even that car is a better car on track than the c7 z06.
Id still rather have the z06 tho, dont need the rear seats.

The GT350R is faster (in a valid test) than the ZL1, but it's pretty close and easily a driver's race for anything but a pro vs a pro. Common sense would say that the ZL1 1LE is faster than a GT350R and isn't far off a Z06. It would probably beat a Z06 in a 3 lap race because it doesn't overheat and go into limp mode.

Sponsored

 

[1mic]

Is it weird I'd rather have the ZL1 1LE than a C7 Z06?

Now if you were to just give me the money that's a different story.

If you spent majority of the time on track, then why not. If you only do 3 track days a year, id rather cruise in the z06. Lighter car, front facing camera, removable hard top. the z1le is hard to see out of, heavier, more stiff suspension.

 

[martinjlm]

Video mentioned something about short gearing in 1st and 2nd. Which may explain the emphasis on 0-60 times. C8 is similar power /weight ratio as C7, and I doubt the C7 in N/A form is traction limited. And according to this, the dual clutch transmission may not shift any faster than the newer automatics.

http://shiftinglanes.com/2016/05/can-an-automatic-shift-faster-than-a-dual-clutch-chevy-thinks-so/
Can An Automatic Shift Faster Than A Dual Clutch? Chevy Thinks So

"the ZL1 with the available 10-speed has faster shift times than the Porsche PDK dual-clutch transmission. In fact, the 1-2 upshift is 36-percent quicker than the PDK, while the 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts are 27-percent and 26-percent quicker, respectively.

The defining issue is that the mid-engine layout puts so much mass over the rear axle that the car stays hooked up. No matter how good the traction is in the C7, C8 is that much better. On acceleration, in corners, coming out of corners. This is why the Porsche 911 Carrera S can hang with a Camaro ZL1 or a C7 Z06, even though it gives up 207 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque.

 

[mustang1]

The defining issue is that the mid-engine layout puts so much mass over the rear axle that the car stays hooked up. No matter how good the traction is in the C7, C8 is that much better. On acceleration, in corners, coming out of corners. This is why the Porsche 911 Carrera S can hang with a Camaro ZL1 or a C7 Z06, even though it gives up 207 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque.

I didn't read his post very carefully, and I was thinking more of 0-60 times in the NA form, rather than cornering and tracking.

Appears C8 has all aluminum frame, this would explain the heavy duty console that uses up too much space. How will aluminum frame hold up in an accident ?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28409341/2020-chevy-corvette-c8-mid-engine-photos-info/

"The C8's stout center tunnel, like the rest of the structure, is aluminum.

Structure
The aluminum frame is bonded and screwed together and, without its top, the C8 is 19 percent torsionally stiffer than its predecessor, according to GM’s numbers. It is also heavier: Chevy is quoting a dry weight of 3366 pounds, which means a likely curb weight of around 3600 pounds; our long-term C7 Grand Sport tipped the scales at 3483 pounds, for reference.

 

[nastang87xx]

Appears C8 has all aluminum frame, this would explain the heavy duty console that uses up too much space. How will aluminum frame hold up in an accident ?

How does the console use up too much space? It's driver centric that was inspired from a cockpit. How about we talk about how amazing the Mustang's interior is and how well designed that was! Oh wait...it's not a good design. Seriously, why does my Mustang have a 1990's phone keypad on it?

Also you do realize Team Mustang's original plan was to use aluminum for a large portion of the 2015 Mustang's structure and unibody? The bean counter shut that down to save on cost and increase margins. Dave Pericak was pissed. Like...he threw something across the room pissed. And that's not a joke. And when the Mustang ended up being 80 - 100lbs heavier than original targets, guess what he did? Yep, threw something again. There are many cars out there that use extensive amounts of aluminum for structural pieces and pass DOT safety all the time with good ratings.

 

[Cardude99]

How does the console use up too much space? It's driver centric that was inspired from a cockpit.

While I like the layout, I would prefer a Skinner center console. My sole reason is hip room. Being a bigger guy, every inch counts, so I would have preferred they make it thinner to accommodate us larger folks better.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I stand corrected on the "all" corners comment. It was the either faster or the same in "all" corners except Turn 9 (marginally).

However, the ZL1 was significantly faster through Turns 1, 5 & 8 (should not happen), broke later and carried more entry speed in to the fast Turn 2, then maintained very similar speed through Turn 2 (shouldn't happen) but getting to throttle late. The GT350R was not much faster in Turns 3 & 4 (it should be) and surprisingly both cars were very even in acceleration on the back straight. The only corner the GT350R was quicker was in Turn 9 (after the ZL1 broke later). Look at the speed trace, not the stupid dots. The dots don't even make sense when the blue GT350R had a similar gap behind the white ZL1 before and after Turn 5 (where the ZL1 had a lot higher mid corner speed and a very similar entry and exit.

The ZL1 was 0.4 seconds faster than the GT350R in this test. It's 200lbs heavier, has (the same*) weight distribution, smaller tires (285/305 vs 305/315), less sticky tires (Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 vs Cup 2. The Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3R is comparable to the Cup 2. The Supercar 3 is more like a PS4S.), less downforce, and went through three corners much faster than the GT350R and equaled it in every other corner (other than Turn 9 where the GT350R was only marginally faster). It's still not a credible, BS test.

Yeah I see your points regarding the speed graph. I don't know how to explain the dots relative to the graph except that they are the location of the car at 9.1 second intervals so they can't be entirely dismissed. Somehow, in spite of that speed graph, the GT350R is making up time at moments vs. the ZL1. My recollection is that they said it repeatedly braked better, so it was able to wait longer and carry the speed into the corners slightly longer.

I guess it's easy for someone on a keyboard to claim it wasn't a legitimate test even though it's a professional race car driver (Randy Pobst) driving both cars on same day. I mean, what does he know? He only races cars for a living.

 

[shogun32]

why does my Mustang have a 1990's phone keypad on it?

because the buttons are big, clearly labeled, intuitive arranged and easy to punch on without undue attention being sapped from the task of piloting a 4000lb vehicle at 30+mph, and use reliable contact switches. Touch screens are the opposite of all that. And 100x the cost.

do realize Team Mustang's original plan was to use aluminum for a large portion of the 2015 Mustang's structure and unibody? The bean counter shut that down to save on cost and increase margins.

I swear society would be a far better place if the conga line of lawyers stepping off the short plank into the depths of the sea was intermixed with damnable accountants. So Ford blew an obscene amount of money on an engineering exercise the rest of world knew was just silly, all for bragging points (flat-plane, long stroke V-8) over making a major improvement to a platform (multiple?) that sells like hotcakes. Really brilliant move! Wanna save costs and improve margins, turn the power out in Detroit and move to a freedom of labor association state. Are there no companies that can see past the next 2 quarters of stock performance?

There are many cars out there that use extensive amounts of aluminum for structural pieces and pass DOT safety all the time with good ratings.

Audi has been doing it since 1994 for crying out loud.

 

[Hack]

Is it weird I'd rather have the ZL1 1LE than a C7 Z06?

Now if you were to just give me the money that's a different story.

Not at all. Based on what I've heard about the C7 Z06, it's not a good car for the track or for pushing in a performance setting.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Appears C8 has all aluminum frame, How will aluminum frame hold up in an accident ?

Who cares about accidents? You'd have to be crazy to prefer steel over aluminum.

 

[nastang87xx]

I swear society would be a far better place if the conga line of lawyers stepping off the short plank into the depths of the sea was intermixed with damnable accountants. So Ford blew an obscene amount of money on an engineering exercise the rest of world knew was just silly, all for bragging points (flat-plane, long stroke V-8) over making a major improvement to a platform (multiple?) that sells like hotcakes. Really brilliant move!

I wouldn't go THAT far. SVT (now Ford Performance) and internal Ford has been fighting this fight since 2005 as soon as the S197 platform was released.

Wanna save costs and improve margins, turn the power out in Detroit and move to a freedom of labor association state. Are there no companies that can see past the next 2 quarters of stock performance?

Ford's stock has been garbage for a long time now too. A long time...

 

[Dusten]

I honestly have no idea how they think they're going to be able to produce a mid-engined Corvette for $60k. I mean, the Fiat 4C is a 4-cylinder mid-engine car, and it starts at $67k. Granted, the 4C has a carbon fiber passenger tub, which definitely adds cost, but it's 25% smaller than the Corvette, has fewer cylinders, and is certainly not built for the all-out speed that the Corvette is built for.

Maybe they're ok with losing money on the base Corvette sales (they sell, what, 3,000 a year?) to make it up on the Z06/Z07, ZR1, etc.

JR

On a good year gm sells 30,000 vettes. A down year, 19,000. The Rd money will be spread out over the long run of this chassis.

 

[Dusten]

That waiting list just got a lot smaller as of last night. I wouldn't buy a base GT500 for $100k (with ADM) when I could get a mid-engine Z51 Corvette with options for $70k, esp. when that Vette will whip the GT500 0-60 with a lot less power.

While you may not. Many will

Buyers who hate gm won't cross shop the Vette.
Buyers who love mustangs won't cross shop the Vette.
Buyers who are Shelby fanatics won't cross shop the Vette.
Buyers who want both will buy both.
The gt500 is still going to sell out and most will go over MSRP.

Look at other forums. Talk to dealers. The number of people in real life who cross shop these cars is small.

 

[Dusten]

How does the console use up too much space? It's driver centric that was inspired from a cockpit. How about we talk about how amazing the Mustang's interior is and how well designed that was! Oh wait...it's not a good design. Seriously, why does my Mustang have a 1990's phone keypad on it?

Also you do realize Team Mustang's original plan was to use aluminum for a large portion of the 2015 Mustang's structure and unibody? The bean counter shut that down to save on cost and increase margins. Dave Pericak was pissed. Like...he threw something across the room pissed. And that's not a joke. And when the Mustang ended up being 80 - 100lbs heavier than original targets, guess what he did? Yep, threw something again. There are many cars out there that use extensive amounts of aluminum for structural pieces and pass DOT safety all the time with good ratings.

1990s keypad? Non sync car?

 

[Strokerswild]

The more I look at the C8, the more I like it.....

Including the interior. I've seen a lot of whining about the console buttons, but I have no issues. It works in a Porsche Panamera, and does for the C8 also.

Sponsored