Who will swap for the new 7.3 V8!

[millhouse]

You're right that the potential is there with a good amount of changes, but you'd also likely need new heads with larger valves to make this good for a performance car, in addition to cam, manifold changes. The induction system, all the way up to and including the valves are sized for peak efficiency and torque in a truck application, not higher power. No one has argued that it can't be made to be a very powerful engine, just that the cost to do so in an S550, is completely asinine and stupid.

I think you're going to see the OEM heads with the large bore diameters are going to have big valves with big lift...and will likely move a LOT of air. A cam swap and gentle port work (and perhaps a new intake) is all this engine is going to need to put out some serious power.

A good read..
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/inside-look-fords-new-7-3l-pushrod-v8/

Why not just go with old reliable in that case? Ford already offers crate performance pushrod engines that will be much less complicated. https://performanceparts.ford.com/engines/#351
I mean, when you are to the point of gutting the car, cutting into vital support beams, and changing out the ECU/wiring/CAN systems, you might as well go crate 427 with a stand-alone fuel system. A rebuilt 427 will still likely be cheaper than a junk yard 7.3.

Those are small block engines without an intake, accessories, fuel injection/carb etc. And they are putting out less horsepower than the 7.3 is going to put out....and will be much less efficient, much more outdated...and still cost $11k.

The 7.3 has all of the new technology wrapped up into a fuel injected big block with a dry lifter valley and (what appears to be) good OEM valve-train. If the valves aren't already huge in size, it's going to allow for much larger valves than a Windsor could ever dream of. Granted it's going to likely cost a fortune if trying to buy new. But in 5 years...from a junkard...

Sure it can be a clean install... but it'll likely be a trailered bucket-case that can't run under it's own power.

No reason it couldn't be a daily driver...and you are over-blowing how much more this engine is going to weight. I don't expect it to be much more than 100lbs over what an LS engine was, as the physical size is going to be comparable. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the weight was near what the GT500's power-train is going to weigh.

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[Lightning Struck]

I just couldn't wait for the new 7.3.. So I slapped in an old 7.3!

 

[millhouse]

Hey Millhouse,


I hope you now see how things are on the other side.


They simply can’t understand the appeal of a traditional iron big block 2 valve with roller rockers on an iconic pony car like the Mustang. They want you to - or demand you - embrace the multi-valve and multi-cam engines littered all over the place these days. It’s called the “herd mentality”. They use numbers and social ploys to squash any witty/unique or creative ideas that may be popular if just given a chance. They are a drag on creativity. What is their solution? I guarantee it won’t be a creative one. Just more of the same.


You watch - if the retro niche V8 swaps get popular the press will get on board and the very people here who pushed back on the idea will somehow try to take part credit for it.


Human nature never changes...

I loved the high revving nature of the coyote and thought it fit the vehicles performance perfectly. With that said, a push-rod engine is so damn easy to work on. They are much smaller physically. Much easier for pulling out/replacing. Much easier to rebuild. Honestly, my biggest gripe with my previous Windsor engines was the wet lifter valley and the weak ass block.

Creativity just to be creative works more in the art world than in auto. When it comes to auto, performance rules. Spending more money to be as-fast or possibly slower isn't a popular option. No one is demanding you embrace better performing and more efficient engines.

You're kidding right? Visual modifications are by far....far the most popular modifications to all vehicles.

The 7.3L engine is also going to be able to produce more NA power than the coyote....meaning in a straight line, this engine is likely to be faster. Hard to believe, I know...but 7.3L with a great flowing head and an efficient chamber is going to move a hell of a lot of air without a huge weight penalty. Keep in mind, these bores are much larger than the coyote. Bigger holes=less iron and more aluminum. I don't think this engine is going to be as heavy as you guys think.

 

[Big Boss]

Hey Millhouse,


I hope you now see how things are on the other side.


They simply can’t understand the appeal of a traditional iron big block 2 valve with roller rockers on an iconic pony car like the Mustang. They want you to - or demand you - embrace the multi-valve and multi-cam engines littered all over the place these days. It’s called the “herd mentality”. They use numbers and social ploys to squash any witty/unique or creative ideas that may be popular if just given a chance. They are a drag on creativity. What is their solution? I guarantee it won’t be a creative one. Just more of the same.


You watch - if the retro niche V8 swaps get popular the press will get on board and the very people here who pushed back on the idea will somehow try to take part credit for it.


Human nature never changes...

It's not that we don't understand the appeal. I have said numerous times I think it would be cool to see a modern big block option in a car.

The problem I have is THIS engine in particular is not going to be better than the coyote. It might have more torque, but it won't have as much power, won't rev as high and is going to weigh more than the coyote. It's going to make the car nose heavy. In a factory type application it offers no benefit over the 5.0

This isn't like the 60s when if you had a choice of 289K code or a 428 Cobra Jet.

Now if there was a Ford Performance version of this engine with like 550HP and 550 FT/LBs and would be plug in play then that's a different story. That doesn't exist. what does exist is a 7.3L truck motor, that in it's CURRENT form is not going to be a better application for a Mustang than the Coyote.

 

[millhouse]

It's not that we don't understand the appeal. I have said numerous times I think it would be cool to see a modern big block option in a car.

The problem I have is THIS engine in particular is not going to be better than the coyote. It might have more torque, but it won't have as much power, won't rev as high and is going to weigh more than the coyote. It's going to make the car nose heavy. In a factory type application it offers no benefit over the 5.0

This isn't like the 60s when if you had a choice of 289K code or a 428 Cobra Jet.

Now if there was a Ford Performance version of this engine with like 550HP and 550 FT/LBs and would be plug in play then that's a different story. That doesn't exist. what does exist is a 7.3L truck motor, that in it's CURRENT form is not going to be a better application for a Mustang than the Coyote.

It's already been stated that the physical length is not going to be much larger than the engine it's replacing. I'm also not sure why you think it's going to weigh that much more than a coyote. It's much smaller physically, has much larger bores. It's biggest downfall (for weight) is the iron block. Hell, the 03-04 terminators had an iron block.

The 7.3 is going to be capable of more NA horsepower than the coyote. For straight line performance, in NA form...it likely will be faster (with modifications). Don't forget that pushrod engines are easy as hell to work on...especially when they have dry lifter valleys and likely embossed rubber seals.

Listen, I'm not saying it's a better match for the vehicle, but it's certainty going to have it's place (if it can fit without tearing the car in half).

 

[Big Boss]

It's already been stated that the physical length is not going to be much larger than the engine it's replacing. I'm also not sure why you think it's going to weigh that much more than a coyote. It's much smaller physically, has much larger bores. It's biggest downfall (for weight) is the iron block. Hell, the 03-04 terminators had an iron block.

The 7.3 is going to be capable of more NA horsepower than the coyote. For straight line performance, in NA form...it likely will be faster (with modifications). Don't forget that pushrod engines are easy as hell to work on...especially when they have dry lifter valleys and likely embossed rubber seals.

Listen, I'm not saying it's a better match for the vehicle, but it's certainty going to have it's place (if it can fit without tearing the car in half).

Which is why I said This engine in it's current form. IE the 7.3 in the only version it exists is a truck motor. Which will not be better than a stock coyote.

I am not arguing it won't make more power NA when modified, not arguing it can't be faster in the 1/4 when modified.

What me and others are saying is that the 7.3 as it is constructed is NOT going to be better than the Coyote stock to stock.. @Fatguy wants the engine as is. As is, it is going to be a money pit, not perform better than a Coyote (but he says he doesn't care about performance) but wants to have all that low down torque but wants to pair it to a super modern A10 transmission that is most likely not going to drive the way he wants it.

 

[millhouse]

Which is why I said This engine in it's current form. IE the 7.3 in the only version it exists is a truck motor. Which will not be better than a stock coyote.

I am not arguing it won't make more power NA when modified, not arguing it can't be faster in the 1/4 when modified.

What me and others are saying is that the 7.3 as it is constructed is NOT going to be better than the Coyote stock to stock.. @Fatguy wants the engine as is. As is, it is going to be a money pit, not perform better than a Coyote (but he says he doesn't care about performance) but wants to have all that low down torque but wants to pair it to a super modern A10 transmission that is most likely not going to drive the way he wants it.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose. "IF" the 7.3 produces more horsepower than the current coyote, it may very well be faster without any engine mods. You're right though, it's not going to be cheap. The only way to make it somewhat economical is to start off with an engine/transmission-less s550.

 

[bootlegger]

You're kidding right? Visual modifications are by far....far the most popular modifications to all vehicles.

The 7.3L engine is also going to be able to produce more NA power than the coyote....meaning in a straight line, this engine is likely to be faster. Hard to believe, I know...but 7.3L with a great flowing head and an efficient chamber is going to move a hell of a lot of air without a huge weight penalty. Keep in mind, these bores are much larger than the coyote. Bigger holes=less iron and more aluminum. I don't think this engine is going to be as heavy as you guys think.

Visual modifications to the exterior are popular. Most people do this to make the car look better, not just to make it look original. A 7.3 swap would not look better. And when does staying N/A matter in straight line racing? Even the big LS guys have to go F/I to compete with the fast Stangs.

Those are small block engines without an intake, accessories, fuel injection/carb etc. And they are putting out less horsepower than the 7.3 is going to put out....and will be much less efficient, much more outdated...and still cost $11k.

$11k new, but I am talking about buying used/rebuilt. I don't remember reading anywhere that the 7.3 will be putting out more than that crate 427 in stock form. As others have stated, in stock form it will suck for racing. It will need some work to step away from the low speed tug work it was designed for, and that means time+money. Not saying it can't be done or won't be done, but I do not believe this engine will be the holy grail big block some of you think it is. At least the crate engine has all forged internals and was made for track duty.

 

[bootlegger]

What me and others are saying is that the 7.3 as it is constructed is NOT going to be better than the Coyote stock to stock.. @Fatguy wants the engine as is. As is, it is going to be a money pit, not perform better than a Coyote (but he says he doesn't care about performance) but wants to have all that low down torque but wants to pair it to a super modern A10 transmission that is most likely not going to drive the way he wants it.

The Ford Performance crate version of this engine, if they make it, would be almost a different engine all together. Much like their 351W options, they would gut this to add in forged internals, rework the heads, and change the cooling/lubrication to match. It would be cool to see them make that, but I wouldn't want to start with the stock truck 7.3 unless I had a lot of time to tinker (and money to support it).

 

[Big Boss]

The Ford Performance crate version of this engine, if they make it, would be almost a different engine all together. Much like their 351W options, they would gut this to add in forged internals, rework the heads, and change the cooling/lubrication to match. It would be cool to see them make that, but I wouldn't want to start with the stock truck 7.3 unless I had a lot of time to tinker (and money to support it).

Exactly, a crate engine version would share maybe the block and some misc. stuff but would be a different engine all together.

 

[millhouse]

Visual modifications to the exterior are popular. Most people do this to make the car look better, not just to make it look original. A 7.3 swap would not look better. And when does staying N/A matter in straight line racing? Even the big LS guys have to go F/I to compete with the fast Stangs.

Why don't you look at the countless "How much power can I make NA" threads". Some people just don't like the extra risk and complexity involved with forced induction setups. Having run both a turbo'd fox and a NA 427 sn95, I can say I much proffered the simplicity of the 427. Let's not forget, running forced induction also adds weight.

As for the LS guys, they can't bore their block out to 500CI like the 7.3 will likely be able to support. There isn't a huge need for forced induction when the engine you're running is pushing 600 hp.

$11k new, but I am talking about buying used/rebuilt. I don't remember reading anywhere that the 7.3 will be putting out more than that crate 427 in stock form. As others have stated, in stock form it will suck for racing. It will need some work to step away from the low speed tug work it was designed for, and that means time+money. Not saying it can't be done or won't be done, but I do not believe this engine will be the holy grail big block some of you think it is. At least the crate engine has all forged internals and was made for track duty.

Buying a used/rebuilt 427? Are you nuts? I don't want someone else problem...been there, done that. This 7.3 block is going to be MUCH more stout than any 351 based engine. It will have 4 bolt mains, thicker webbing, better oiling, bigger bores, more potential.

I'm curious, why do you think it will suck for drag racing? Pushing 7000 RPM isn't a requirement. 6000RPM is perfectly adequate, especially if you have 10 gears at your disposal. Having gobbs of low end torque works wonders on getting a fantastic 60'. You wan't more than 6000 RPM? Swap out the cam (it won't be long after release before they start offering them, you can count on it). LS guys have been reaping HUGE rewards off of this for years.

If fully expect this engine to put out 435-440hp and over 500lb-ft of torque. Once they change over to direct injection, expect both of those numbers to go up.

 

[Big Boss]

Why don't you look at the countless "How much power can I make NA" threads". Some people just don't like the extra risk and complexity involved with forced induction setups. Having run both a turbo'd fox and a NA 427 sn95, I can say I much proffered the simplicity of the 427. Let's not forget, running forced induction also adds weight.

As for the LS guys, they can't bore their block out to 500CI like the 7.3 will likely be able to support. There isn't a huge need for forced induction when the engine you're running is pushing 600 hp.





Buying a used/rebuilt 427? Are you nuts? I don't want someone else problem...been there, done that. This 7.3 block is going to be MUCH more stout than any 351 based engine. It will have 4 bolt mains, thicker webbing, better oiling, bigger bores, more potential.

I'm curious, why do you think it will suck for drag racing? Pushing 7000 RPM isn't a requirement. 6000RPM is perfectly adequate, especially if you have 10 gears at your disposal. Having gobbs of low end torque works wonders on getting a fantastic 60'. You wan't more than 6000 RPM? Swap out the cam (it won't be long after release before they start offering them, you can count on it). LS guys have been reaping HUGE rewards off of this for years.

If fully expect this engine to put out 435-440hp and over 500lb-ft of torque. Once they change over to direct injection, expect both of those numbers to go up.

I think this engine will suck for drag racing because it is a truck engine designed to truck things. Again we are talking about the engine as is. Because no variants of it exist, no performance parts exist, we are talking straight up the F-250 version of the 7.3

Because this is a full on truck engine, I wouldn't be shocked if it fell on its face after 5000 RPM

 

[bootlegger]

Why don't you look at the countless "How much power can I make NA" threads". Some people just don't like the extra risk and complexity involved with forced induction setups. Having run both a turbo'd fox and a NA 427 sn95, I can say I much proffered the simplicity of the 427. Let's not forget, running forced induction also adds weight.

As for the LS guys, they can't bore their block out to 500CI like the 7.3 will likely be able to support. There isn't a huge need for forced induction when the engine you're running is pushing 600 hp.





Buying a used/rebuilt 427? Are you nuts? I don't want someone else problem...been there, done that. This 7.3 block is going to be MUCH more stout than any 351 based engine. It will have 4 bolt mains, thicker webbing, better oiling, bigger bores, more potential.

I'm curious, why do you think it will suck for drag racing? Pushing 7000 RPM isn't a requirement. 6000RPM is perfectly adequate, especially if you have 10 gears at your disposal. Having gobbs of low end torque works wonders on getting a fantastic 60'. You wan't more than 6000 RPM? Swap out the cam (it won't be long after release before they start offering them, you can count on it). LS guys have been reaping HUGE rewards off of this for years.

If fully expect this engine to put out 435-440hp and over 500lb-ft of torque. Once they change over to direct injection, expect both of those numbers to go up.

People like staying N/A, as it is mostly cheaper and less risky in the long run. However, many on this forum have already shown you can have safe power with boost into the 700whp range.

I am not talking about engine potential. I am talking about going the fastest for the least amount of money. The 427 with forged internals is going to be more stout than a stock 7.3 with stock internals set up for truck duty. So you add cams and mess with it enough to get 600hp N/A. All that just to be killed on the track by a guy running a blown 5.0L with no internal work. It takes more than a good 60ft to win a race. Like I said, I understand how some can be excited over it, but it will take a lot of time and money to make it into a successful track engine in an S550. The people who will do it are going to do it just to say they did it.

 

[TexasRebel]

It's already been stated that the physical length is not going to be much larger than the engine it's replacing.

By whom? See. This is why sources are required. At this point you're just repeating something that Fatguy said without sources. In fact, the source has stated that the 7.3 will be longer as it has larger bore spacing.

Yes... sometimes people do things just for looks.

While anyone who knows what they are looking at just laugh, and laugh.

 

[Fatguy]

Creativity just to be creative works more in the art world than in auto.

Probably because they are populated by engineers. But there is creativity in the sciences. Just where did the term “eureka” come from:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_(word)

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