New clutch, now hard going into 1st

[Howler5.O]

Last weekend I had an Exedy Mach 500 clutch, Exedy flywheel, new throw out bearing and MGW installed on the car. Now I am having issues going into 1st from neutral when the clutch is first pressed. It feels like I’m being locked out and takes a little force to go in. It sometimes makes a "thud" sound going into gear. Once it's in, it has no issues going into any other gear (including 1st). In fact, it’s buttery smooth from that point but if I go into neutral, then press the clutch again, it struggles going into back into 1st almost every time.

My first thought was there's still some air in the line. I have tried vacuum bleeding from the top with a Mityvac holding vacuum for about a minute, capping it and pumping the pedal. Did this about 7 times. I’ve also tried slow pumping the pedal for about 30 minutes but no luck. Could there still be an air bubble trapped or does it sounds like a bigger issue?

Here’s a quick video of what I am experiencing...

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[CrashOverride]

Don't drive it until you fix it, seriously. When you are pushing hard, it's because the clutch is probably dragging on the flywheel and your poor synchros are getting eaten alive as you are forcing it into gear. I had that problem in a previous car and fried my synchro after doing it only a few times.

2 ways to check:

Car off. Push in clutch, go from neutral to 1st. Easy? Then clutch is dragging. Just as hard? Linkage problem. Maybe your MGW needs to be adjusted, maybe the gates are off? Hopefully that's the problem.

2nd way: Car off on flat surface in the middle of nowhere. Put into first gear. Push clutch in all the way. Start car. Rev engine fairly high ~4000 RPM or so. If your clutch is dragging, then your car will creep forward. If not, then again, probably a linkage problem.

It could be air in the line so you're not getting enough displacement on the slave cylinder. Could be expanding clutch line because the new clutch is stiffer (So the fluid expands more in the plastic clutch line). Could be the slave cylinder itself. I doubt it would be the clutch/flywheel/pressure plate, but you never know.

I hope you get this figured out right away. It stinks. I got good at pulling the trans because of it. First time took me around 12 hours (It was a FWD car). Second time took around 6 hours.

 

[ArcsandSparks]

Can you get into other gears instead of 1st? If it's just 1st thats giving you an issue I'd say its a shifter issue, if other gears give you trouble it's clutch/slave cyl. related.

 

[Howler5.O]

Thanks for the info. Just to ease concerns, I am not driving it around forcing it into gear. Other things to mention is the car has a ss clutch line and the master cylinder was replaced less than a year ago.

When the car is off, I can press in the clutch and go into any gear. To me it seems like there is an issue with not enough pressure to disengage the clutch but it seems strange that once in gear, I can up shift and down shift into any gear without issue. Are there any alternative methods, other than what I've already done, to bleed the system if it is an air pocket? I will be in contact with the shop that did the work but they are also 2 hours away from me. If I can figure it out, it would save me a trip.

Thanks again.

 

[JOKER M1]

I had an issue that may be what you are experiencing:

While driving the car all engagement is fine,
When I come to a stop and push the clutch in and leave it in all gear engagement in fine including first,
While still stopped in neutral if I let the clutch out then depress the clutch and try and put into first I was getting the same issue shown in your video

Can you confirm this is your exact situation

 

[Howler5.O]

I had an issue that may be what you are experiencing:

While driving the car all engagement is fine,
When I come to a stop and push the clutch in and leave it in all gear engagement in fine including first,
While still stopped in neutral if I let the clutch out then depress the clutch and try and put into first I was getting the same issue shown in your video

Can you confirm this is your exact situation

That is exactly what is happening

 

[JOKER M1]

That is exactly what is happening

My problem ended up being my slave cylinder, I know you had a new one installed but the issue is hydraulic related. For starters can you positively confirm they properly bench bled the slave cylinder “before” installing it?

 

[Howler5.O]

My problem ended up being my slave cylinder, I know you had a new one installed but the issue is hydraulic related. For starters can you positively confirm they properly bench bled the slave cylinder “before” installing it?

I am not sure but I’m going to ask

 

[JOKER M1]

I am not sure but I’m going to ask

Try and ask in a way where they can’t just say, oh yes we did it right.

 

[JOKER M1]

If you wanna get creative you can disconnect the clutch line from the master cylinder and vacuum bleed it that way. Go to the high end of the vacuum and let it set for a while and do it several times, make sure you have a long hose as you will get some fluid pulled into the hose. Then you can hook it back up and vacuum it the normal way and “slowly” work the clutch pedal in between. All this should work but it may not, it’s a starting point.

 

[Howler5.O]

If you wanna get creative you can disconnect the clutch line from the master cylinder and vacuum bleed it that way. Go to the high end of the vacuum and let it set for a while and do it several times, make sure you have a long hose as you will get some fluid pulled into the hose. Then you can hook it back up and vacuum it the normal way and “slowly” work the clutch pedal in between. All this should work but it may not, it’s a starting point.

All very good points. I’m working today but I am going to try your bleeding suggestion this evening. I’m the meantime, I will think of a good way to propose the question to the installer.

 

[CrashOverride]

Usually the reason you don't feel it in other gears is because there isn't as much of a mechanical advantage in other gears and typically the amount of speed difference the synchros need to overcome is smaller. But if the issue really is related to clutch drag (Caused by hydraulics) then it is happening in every gear.

I haven't messed with the clutch line since I got the car, but an old-timers trued/true way of bleeding brakes is to crack the lowest bleed screw (Or the banjo nut holding the line to the slave) and let it very, very slowly drip down for several hours. Just make sure you check the master cylinder fluid level so that it never goes dry). I've recently become a fan of reverse bleeding, but if you don't have a bleed screw at the slave, then it won't work.

 

[Howler5.O]

Usually the reason you don't feel it in other gears is because there isn't as much of a mechanical advantage in other gears and typically the amount of speed difference the synchros need to overcome is smaller. But if the issue really is related to clutch drag (Caused by hydraulics) then it is happening in every gear.

I haven't messed with the clutch line since I got the car, but an old-timers trued/true way of bleeding brakes is to crack the lowest bleed screw (Or the banjo nut holding the line to the slave) and let it very, very slowly drip down for several hours. Just make sure you check the master cylinder fluid level so that it never goes dry). I've recently become a fan of reverse bleeding, but if you don't have a bleed screw at the slave, then it won't work.

Makes sense.

The issue on these cars is there isn’t an external bleed screw on the slave (the lowest part of the system). What I’m learning is the slave needs to be pre-bled (bench bled) when installed to minimize trapped air. Then the rest of the air can be bled using the vacuum or pedal pump method.

 

[CrashOverride]

My other car was similar. Not that it is easy in this case, but I applied pressure to the slave cylinder itself and kept filling the clutch master cylinder. Basically bench bleeding like you said. It was a messy job, and fairly difficult because you're working against the mechanical advantage built into the system (I had to use channel-locks in order to compress the slave cylinder)

 

[JOKER M1]

Yes you most definitely have to bench bleed these slave cylinders and it’s a very simple process and not messy at all. You manually squeeze & release the cylinder with the line end in a cup of fluid until there are no more air bubbles then use the cap that came with it to keep any fluid from dripping just before you slide the trans in place. There are several YouTube videos on it as well

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