New clutch, now hard going into 1st

[JOKER M1]

Makes sense.

The issue on these cars is there isn’t an external bleed screw on the slave (the lowest part of the system). What I’m learning is the slave needs to be pre-bled (bench bled) when installed to minimize trapped air. Then the rest of the air can be bled using the vacuum or pedal pump method.

There are slave cylinders with a bleed screw for our cars but I don’t remember if they are clutch specific.

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[CrashOverride]

Mine was messy since I did it on the car and had fluid coming out of a connector, not the master cylinder. But if you do it in an actual bench, yeah it's clean and easy.

 

[Howler5.O]

Well I tried vacuum bleeding from the slave, then pre-filled the clutch line. Vacuum bled the clutch line. Reattached it to the reservoir, then bled it from the cap. Didn’t improve (or make it worse).

The shop said they bled before installing so all I’m left with is pulling it apart. Could it be a defective slave? I’ll be calling Exedy in the morning to see what my options are.

The shop suggested shimming the slave. I’m not familiar if this is a “normal” thing to do. I’m my opinion, stuff like that are “bandaid” fixed that shouldn’t be necessary if everything is working properly but maybe I’m wrong?

Last thing, I’m starting to noticed small changes... When the clutch is de-pressed I’m hearing a faint “whirring” sound. Then it goes away when I press the clutch. It also effects the sound of the exhaust. Is this normal? Part of the lightened flywheel? Just seems strange and not something I remember before.

 

[CrashOverride]

Shimming the slave means they think the clutch is dragging as well, and that for whatever reason the geometry is wrong. Geometry meaning crank to flywheel to pressure plate vs trans to slave to pressure plate springs. Immediately, it sounds like the slave, but it could be a stacked tolerance deal where everything is on the edge of okay, and this happens...I don't know the tolerances though, so that might not be a factor.

I'd ask them to compare the distance of your fully-retracted slave cylinder to a fully-retracted 2nd slave. they should be the same. Or, if the kit came with shims, then the trans tech might have been lazy and didn't measure the fully retracted distance. I've never replaced an internal slave before, so I might be wrong here.

If the sound is made only when you are pushing the clutch pedal inwards, then it's probably the throw-out bearing. If it's when the pedal is outward (Your foot off the clutch pedal) then it is probably just transmission noise that maybe you didn't pay attention to before. A lightened flywheel does make the car feel and drive differently, but I don't recall any unusual sounds when I did mine (In a different car, mind you).

No matter what the case is, they have to pull the trans to replace or shim the slave. They can do it without touching the flywheel, clutch or pressure plate, so they will probably not disassemble them, but I would ask them to, just to inspect the surfaces if nothing else. Also to look at the pressure plate finger springs to see if any of them are deformed. Sorry to hear about the trouble man. Doing a clutch is lousy, but doing it twice? That's like going straight from the DMV to the dentist to the tax man.

 

[Kong76]

Crashoverride you seem very versed in clutch schematics. I have a question but don't want to derail the thread.

 

[JOKER M1]

Well I tried vacuum bleeding from the slave, then pre-filled the clutch line. Vacuum bled the clutch line. Reattached it to the reservoir, then bled it from the cap. Didn’t improve (or make it worse).

The shop said they bled before installing so all I’m left with is pulling it apart. Could it be a defective slave? I’ll be calling Exedy in the morning to see what my options are.

The shop suggested shimming the slave. I’m not familiar if this is a “normal” thing to do. I’m my opinion, stuff like that are “bandaid” fixed that shouldn’t be necessary if everything is working properly but maybe I’m wrong?

Last thing, I’m starting to noticed small changes... When the clutch is de-pressed I’m hearing a faint “whirring” sound. Then it goes away when I press the clutch. It also effects the sound of the exhaust. Is this normal? Part of the lightened flywheel? Just seems strange and not something I remember before.

Email Bill Garrett directly and include the video, he is very quick to respond but the initial response may take slightly longer if he needs the engineering dept to listen to the video.

Bill Garrett

Account Executive

EXEDY Globalparts Corporation

[email protected]

Direct phone (734) 397-6646 I Fax (734) 397-7300

Cell phone (734) 612-0083

 

[mikeD4V]

I had to adjust the mgw reverse lockout pin after putting the exedy clutch and flywheel in. Thought it was clutch stuff too but 5min with an allen key solved it.

@13:55

 

[Howler5.O]

Email Bill Garrett directly and include the video, he is very quick to respond but the initial response may take slightly longer if he needs the engineering dept to listen to the video.

Bill Garrett

Account Executive

EXEDY Globalparts Corporation

[email protected]

Direct phone (734) 397-6646 I Fax (734) 397-7300

Cell phone (734) 612-0083

Thank you! Bill was quick to respond and gave me a few more things to check before pulling it apart.

 

[Howler5.O]

I had to adjust the mgw reverse lockout pin after putting the exedy clutch and flywheel in. Thought it was clutch stuff too but 5min with an allen key solved it.

@13:55

Thanks. I don’t have any issues going into 1st when the car is off so I’m not sure it’s the same. Can you confirm that you had the same issue as me when you adjusted the reverse lockout pin?

 

[CrashOverride]

Crashoverride you seem very versed in clutch schematics. I have a question but don't want to derail the thread.

No worries, send me a PM or create another thread, I'll help you out however I can!

I'm really interested to see what Bill's suggestions were and ultimately what's causing this. I'm 99% positive it's clutch drag through some means of not fully disengaging the clutch.

 

[JOKER M1]

Thank you! Bill was quick to respond and gave me a few more things to check before pulling it apart.

Did he tell you to jack up one side and try bleeding again?, can’t remeber what side it is though.

 

[Howler5.O]

Did he tell you to jack up one side and try bleeding again?, can’t remeber what side it is though.

Bill wants me to bleed the brakes as well since they are part of the same system. If bleeding the full system does not work then we’ll look at replacing the slave.

Interestingly, (per his suggestion) I held the brake pedal down and slow pumped the clutch and it actually went into 1st with much less effort. This gives me some hope. The car is prepped to bleed the brakes. I’ll get to this over the next couple of days.

Here’s exactly what he said about a shim...
“Do not add a shim. That is done by companies that modify the OE piece. Our is a clean slate design and we have accounted for that measurement already.”

 

[JOKER M1]

Bill wants me to bleed the brakes as well since they are part of the same system. If bleeding the full system does not work then we’ll look at replacing the slave.

Interestingly, (per his suggestion) I held the brake pedal down and slow pumped the clutch and it actually went into 1st with much less effort. This gives me some hope. The car is prepped to bleed the brakes. I’ll get to this over the next couple of days.

Here’s exactly what he said about a shim...
“Do not add a shim. That is done by companies that modify the OE piece. Our is a clean slate design and we have accounted for that measurement already.”

Applying the brake while slow pumping the clutch is an interesting approach and makes sense since it’s pressurizing the system. I do remember Bill making a statement about why there are no engagement issues while down shifting with the brakes applied and also why there are no issues when you come to a stop as long as you don’t release the clutch but once you release the clutch and brakes it starts all over......look forward to hearing how it turns out, the system isn’t complicated and you are in good hands.

 

[moffetts]

My car does the same thing with an OEM slave and RST with the steel flywheel. It doesn't sound like it's as consistent or as predictable as yours, though. I have had the brakes bled since the issue started and it made no difference one way or another. I would rather live with it than drop the tranny again.

 

[CrashOverride]

Bill wants me to bleed the brakes as well since they are part of the same system. If bleeding the full system does not work then we’ll look at replacing the slave.

Interestingly, (per his suggestion) I held the brake pedal down and slow pumped the clutch and it actually went into 1st with much less effort. This gives me some hope. The car is prepped to bleed the brakes. I’ll get to this over the next couple of days.

Here’s exactly what he said about a shim...
“Do not add a shim. That is done by companies that modify the OE piece. Our is a clean slate design and we have accounted for that measurement already.”

The brakes thing is unusual to me - as far as the clutch is concerned, it's drawing unpressurized fluid from the shared reservoir so there just won't be as much fluid in there. Now that I think about it - it's a sealed system. You push down the brake pedal which "sucks" some fluid from the reservoir actually creating a small vacuum in the reservoir. That small vacuum could (in theory) pull bubbles out of the clutch line. I don't know how much vacuum is created though - I can't imagine it being much.

Good to hear about the shims - usually shims are needed anytime there is sloppy tolerances, so it's good to know they don't have them.

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