Who else is Manual or Bust?

[SVT-DADDY]

So much wheel spin in this thread. Time for me to tap out!

Sponsored

 

[SVT-DADDY]

This. I took a on ramp at about 55MPH next to a state trooper (2 lane wide on ramp) the suggested speed was 25 mph. He didn't bat an eye. This was when I was on my s2000. Now if you did the same on a toyota tercel for example and nearly lost control I'm sure you would get pulled over.

I'm sure he could care less what you are driving. Probably more to do with the end of his shift.

 

[d1zguy]

I'm sure he could care less what you are driving. Probably more to do with the end of his shift.

Probably, but I must be lucky because I've come across many end of shift state troopers then!

Plus it is a recommendation. Even if pulled over I know the law and what to say to make him leave me alone and not take it to court. ( have had many officers just give me a warning instead ) I'm very comfortable with going to court and that scares them of as they rather not deal with it in court. One of my hobbies is just going to court house and listen in to cases. lol

 

[roygriffin2020]

This. I took a on ramp at about 55MPH next to a state trooper (2 lane wide on ramp) the suggested speed was 25 mph. He didn't bat an eye. This was when I was on my s2000. Now if you did the same on a toyota tercel for example and nearly lost control I'm sure you would get pulled over.

Do you mean On Ramp to the Freeway or an Off Ramp to the frontage road. Off Ramps have a suggestion, I have never seen an On Ramp suggestion. Generally speaking, and On Ramp to the freeway is the same speed as the freeway.

 

[d1zguy]

Do you mean On Ramp to the Freeway or an Off Ramp to the frontage road. Off Ramps have a suggestion, I have never seen an On Ramp suggestion.

Both, it was an on-ramp off a interstate into another one. So technically an off ramp/on-ramp.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Both, it was an on-ramp off a interstate into another one. So technically an off ramp/on-ramp.

So the suggested speed as I said is not a law. They don't care and cannot give you a ticket. An On Ramp to the freeway will never have a sign as that is when a driver needs to attain the speed of the freeway and merge fluidly, never lower.

 

[Rothgray]

I've driven and had cars with DCT's. They suck in practical use. Takes forever to drop down 3 gears and they cannot skip gears. The 10r80 is better in this aspect as it can skip. The DCT is faster at the track going through gears in order and down in order. Otherwise once you ask a 3rd shift from it it will take long than the second (DCT's have 2 gears engaged at any time and just change the input shaft via the "dual clutch" when shifting) For daily usage and fun they blow.

I test drove a 10r80 mustang and just didn't care for it. Not as fast as the DCT's i've had in a straight line (e90 M3) and hunts around for gears to much and when it does the torque converter decouples and just feels like jelly in everyday driving. For straight line accel sure but everyday nah

Older DCT's were like that, in my current car, if I am in automatic mode, and stomp on it, it goes directly to the appropriate gear, it does not go down in order.

But an E90 M3, did not have a DCT, it had a SMG.

 

[d1zguy]

Older DCT's were like that, in my current car, if I am in automatic mode, and stomp on it, it goes directly to the appropriate gear, it does not go down in order.

But an E90 M3, did not have a DCT, it had a SMG.

You're confusing the trans with the E46 M3. The SMGII was on the E46 M3 and SMGIII on E60 M5' and E63 M6's. The E90 had a DCT just like the GT500 will.

I drove a 2019' Audi A4 with DCT and the lag was there. You just can't skip shift like on a traditional automatic or manual with a DCT.

It does not go down in order one input shaft has odd numbered gears, the other even gears. When shifting up it just changes shafts via the "dual clutches" then the disengaged shaft select the next forward gear. When downshifting the same process happens in order causing massive delays. DCT for track or drag, manual or conventional auto for everyday use but I prefer manual just because of the input lag i don't appreciate with buttons. That said DCT's are the best at track or drag settings where you go through gears in order. In practical and everyday use they are trash IMHO; unless you constantly mindful of the gear you are in and are always in manual mode which at that point just a manual. the a10r80 is a MUCH better transmission for practical and everyday use while being able to bang out gears very quickly for drag and track while sacrificing some shifting speeds that you can get on a DCT. The GT500 just seems like a Halo car. big mistake to omit a manual or traditional automatic option. I drive my cars no matter how expensive or sporty they are year round and puts tons of miles don't care about straight line speed or ms of shift speed.

Funnily enought the SMGII and SMGIII could downshift and skip a gear faster being that they were just manual transmissions with hydraulic actuators. The delay was in matching the rev's and the clutch engagement on those. lol you could easily convert to manual by adding a clutch pedal assembly, lines, tapped into the master cylinder reservoir, and installed the detent springs on the gear selecting rod.

Going from gear 10 to gear 4 would take forever in a DCT if you just mash the throttle.

for me a manual with rev-shift is the most amount of automation I will accept on a manual car for any type of use. and on the mustang it works beautifully. once the engine blips and rev up to where it syncs up with the next gear or lower gear the shift lever just slides in like butter.

 

[Rothgray]

You're confusing the trans with the E46 M3. The SMGII was on the E46 M3 and SMGIII on E60 M5' and E63 M6's. The E90 had a DCT just like the GT500 will.

I drove a 2019' Audi A4 with DCT and the lag was there. You just can't skip shift like on a traditional automatic or manual with a DCT.

It does not go down in order one input shaft has odd numbered gears, the other even gears. When shifting up it just changes shafts via the "dual clutches" then the disengaged shaft select the next forward gear. When downshifting the same process happens in order causing massive delays. DCT for track or drag, manual or conventional auto for everyday use but I prefer manual just because of the input lag i don't appreciate with buttons. That said DCT's are the best at track or drag settings where you go through gears in order. In practical and everyday use they are trash IMHO.

Funnily enought the SMGII and SMGIII could downshift and skip a gear faster being that they were just manual transmissions with hydraulic actuators. The delay was in matching the rev's and the clutch engagement on those. lol you could easily convert to manual by adding a clutch pedal assembly, lines, tapped into the master cylinder reservoir, and installed the detent springs on the gear selecting rod.

Going from gear 10 to gear 4 would take forever in a DCT if you just mash the throttle.

for me a manual with rev-shift is the most amount of automation I will accept on a manual car for any type of use. and on the mustang it works beautifully. once the engine blips and rev up to where it syncs up with the next gear or lower gear the shift lever just slides in like butter.

Sorry, you are correct.

I am going to disagree with you about it taking forever, as I used to have a 2016 M4 with a DCT, it had no problem dropping into the right gear and going, granted yes, this was one generation newer than your previous M3.

I'm not sure whats up with the new Audi A4, I currently have a 2018 Audi RS5 as a DD, and they went away from the DCT, and went with basically the best automatic ever made, the ZF8.

 

[d1zguy]

Sorry, you are correct.

I am going to disagree with you about it taking forever, as I used to have a 2016 M4 with a DCT, it had no problem dropping into the right gear and going, granted yes, this was one generation newer than your previous M3.

I'm not sure whats up with the new Audi A4, I currently have a 2018 Audi RS5 as a DD, and they went away from the DCT, and went with basically the best automatic ever made, the ZF8.

Maybe I am being picky. I did test drive a 2017 BMW m3 with a DCT and found it having the same issue. That's smart that they went with the ZF8. Like i said a much practical transmission for everyday use and our american speed limits and roads. Even corvette went with a traditional automatic. Maybe it's that disconnect of mashing the throttle and waiting for the car to catch up to my head. In a manual car i downshift before hand and floor it when already in the right gear timing it perfectly with road conditions ahead. In a auto i feel out of control or having to baby it too much annoying me.

I also test drove manual versions of recent BMW M cars and I have to say it's a shame the manual cars feel like an after thought. Horrible driveline feel when working the clutch, rubber gear lever, worst manual made. Even my E46 M3's manual felt off with it's constant tension driveshaft design.

The mustang manual feels much better than any new manual M car right now off the lot to me.

The RS5 sportback is very sweet and I considered it but I tend to go through cars one a time. lol

 

[Norm Peterson]

All my comments were taking corners at legal speed limits. I never said driving as fast as you do on track.

'Intensity' and speed aren't exactly synonymous. But if you're not driving as fast as you would on track, why would you need to be running the engine in the same part of its rev range on the street that you'd be running it in if you were on the track?

If you want to be running the engine up closer to where you would on the track, that would be your choice. But that doesn't make it wrong in any absolute sense to choose to be a gear higher and a few hundred rpm lower at least part of the time.

If you don't keep the engine in it's powerband, what's the point of driving? You want power and you want to shift, but you don't want to keep it in the powerband? You're pretty special.

There's nothing special about not needing to keep it in the fat part of the powerband even when you're driving with a bit more enthusiasm than you normally would in light to moderate traffic. Nor is there anything special about not needing to use the upper portion of the power curve on a regular basis anywhere that isn't a track or during sanctioned competition.

Needing to keep it in the powerband is a racing attitude, like you'd have for your track driving. Street driving only needs to have satisfactory response for the conditions. It's not like there isn't any overlap between 'satisfactory' and 'in the powerband', but your street driving attitude need not step past needing 'satisfactory'.

I think you've mentioned the Miata, and yes, you'd have to drive that car relatively harder to maintain the same pace. That's different.


Norm

 

[Rothgray]

Maybe I am being picky. I did test drive a 2017 BMW m3 with a DCT and found it having the same issue. That's smart that they went with the ZF8. Like i said a much practical transmission for everyday use and our american speed limits and roads. Even corvette went with a traditional automatic. Maybe it's that disconnect of mashing the throttle and waiting for the car to catch up to my head. In a manual car i downshift before hand and floor it when already in the right gear timing it perfectly with road conditions ahead. In a auto i feel out of control or having to baby it too much annoying me.

I also test drove manual versions of recent BMW M cars and I have to say it's a shame the manual cars feel like an after thought. Horrible driveline feel when working the clutch, rubber gear lever, worst manual made. Even my E46 M3's manual felt off with it's constant tension driveshaft design.

The mustang manual feels much better than any new manual M car right now off the lot to me.

The RS5 sportback is very sweet and I considered it but I tend to go through cars one a time. lol

Ya, the Sportback is nice, mine is the Coupe though. It's literally near exotic car like performance. 1/4 in 11.5, 0-60 in 3.5, great handling.

The Germans have really churned out some amazing GT/Muscle Cars recently.

 

[Eritas]

You're confusing the trans with the E46 M3. The SMGII was on the E46 M3 and SMGIII on E60 M5' and E63 M6's. The E90 had a DCT just like the GT500 will.

I drove a 2019' Audi A4 with DCT and the lag was there. You just can't skip shift like on a traditional automatic or manual with a DCT.

It does not go down in order one input shaft has odd numbered gears, the other even gears. When shifting up it just changes shafts via the "dual clutches" then the disengaged shaft select the next forward gear. When downshifting the same process happens in order causing massive delays. DCT for track or drag, manual or conventional auto for everyday use but I prefer manual just because of the input lag i don't appreciate with buttons. That said DCT's are the best at track or drag settings where you go through gears in order. In practical and everyday use they are trash IMHO; unless you constantly mindful of the gear you are in and are always in manual mode which at that point just a manual. the a10r80 is a MUCH better transmission for practical and everyday use while being able to bang out gears very quickly for drag and track while sacrificing some shifting speeds that you can get on a DCT. The GT500 just seems like a Halo car. big mistake to omit a manual or traditional automatic option. I drive my cars no matter how expensive or sporty they are year round and puts tons of miles don't care about straight line speed or ms of shift speed.

Funnily enought the SMGII and SMGIII could downshift and skip a gear faster being that they were just manual transmissions with hydraulic actuators. The delay was in matching the rev's and the clutch engagement on those. lol you could easily convert to manual by adding a clutch pedal assembly, lines, tapped into the master cylinder reservoir, and installed the detent springs on the gear selecting rod.

Going from gear 10 to gear 4 would take forever in a DCT if you just mash the throttle.

for me a manual with rev-shift is the most amount of automation I will accept on a manual car for any type of use. and on the mustang it works beautifully. once the engine blips and rev up to where it syncs up with the next gear or lower gear the shift lever just slides in like butter.

My E90 M3 skipped gears, and all DCTs can easily skip gears from odd to even (& vice versa). You can go from 7-4th or 6-3rd. You just can't go odd-odd or even-even because those gears are on the same shafts.

'Intensity' and speed aren't exactly synonymous. But if you're not driving as fast as you would on track, why would you need to be running the engine in the same part of its rev range on the street that you'd be running it in if you were on the track?

If you want to be running the engine up closer to where you would on the track, that would be your choice. But that doesn't make it wrong in any absolute sense to choose to be a gear higher and a few hundred rpm lower at least part of the time.

There's nothing special about not needing to keep it in the fat part of the powerband even when you're driving with a bit more enthusiasm than you normally would in light to moderate traffic. Nor is there anything special about not needing to use the upper portion of the power curve on a regular basis anywhere that isn't a track or during sanctioned competition.

Needing to keep it in the powerband is a racing attitude, like you'd have for your track driving. Street driving only needs to have satisfactory response for the conditions. It's not like there isn't any overlap between 'satisfactory' and 'in the powerband', but your street driving attitude need not step past needing 'satisfactory'.

I think you've mentioned the Miata, and yes, you'd have to drive that car relatively harder to maintain the same pace. That's different.


Norm

Sounds like you're a low-revving, down low torque kind of guy. Go buy a manual Hellcat and never buy a GT350, S2000, Miata, E90/E46 M3, or any car you need to rev out to get into its powerband.

We are on completely different pages and will never convince each other otherwise. The GT500 appears to have a 7,500rpm redline so even if it has a manual, a Hellcat sounds like it meets your short-shifting driving style and needs.

 

[d1zguy]

My E90 M3 skipped gears, and all DCTs can easily skip gears from odd to even (& vice versa). You can go from 7-4th or 6-3rd. You just can't go odd-odd or even-even because those gears are on the same shafts.

This is true however, inconsistent when I want to go even to even or odd to odd.

 

[Eritas]

This is true however, inconsistent when I want to go even to even or odd to odd.

It can't. So in a 7-3 desired downshift, i'll have to go 7-4, then 4-3.

Sponsored