Who else is Manual or Bust?

[Hack]

IMO manuals might go away, but only if performance vehicles go away. That video with the Viper is interesting to me. I guess there's a group of people that do high speed acceleration runs on public streets. Hold the gas pedal down and the steering wheel straight ahead and see what happens. I can't imagine something less interesting to do with a car, when the potential consequences are considered. I have to admit I find long straights on a road course boring as well. And I understand that is at least partially the market for the GT500. Plus the people who just want to brag about how fast someone else drove the vehicle that they own.

I've driven DCTs on the track and I felt it took a lot of the fun out. I'm definitely manual or bust. If I lost the use of my left leg I would still want to rig something up to allow me to use a clutch and gear shift.

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[Houston Kid]

I am glad it is not a manual. It was auto or bust for me. The 7 speed DCT is perfect. I want the faster car.

 

[bdub85]

I was kind of bummed it was manual only, but I'm happy they are at least going with the DCT and not just a slushbox. The 10 speed in my raptor is very uninspiring even with trans tuning. It tends to get stuck in a gear easily and often hunts for gears.

The DCT in the GT500 should be the ticket though. It won't stop me from getting one.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

Though I suppose there's the matter of bragging rights for anybody who counts that for much.


Norm

Clearly there are bragging rights on the line for the Manufacturers. These people take tremendous pride in these projects and they are not going to handicap their potential performance in the name of tradition or to satisfy a few purists. If one transmission can satisfy 80-90% of buyers while providing the best performance #'s it likely becomes a poor financial decision to offer a 2nd application specific transmission option as well.

 

[LSchicago]

Clearly there are bragging rights on the line for the Manufacturers. These people take tremendous pride in these projects and they are not going to handicap their potential performance in the name of tradition or to satisfy a few purists. If one transmission can satisfy 80-90% of buyers while providing the best performance #'s it likely becomes a poor financial decision to offer a 2nd application specific transmission option as well.

Ford is still producing the GT350 for guys who don't care about being the fastest, but only will buy a manual. Keep the GT350 alive for them.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

Ford is still producing the GT350 for guys who don't care about being the fastest, but only will buy a manual. Keep the GT350 alive for them.

I not against manuals or offering a manual option. I just think at some point the benefits of streamlining the manufacturing costs outweigh the benefit the trying to satisfy a small and shrinking demographic. Conversely, I'd love to see what a GT350 could do with a DCT or even a properly calibrated 10r80.

 

[LSchicago]

I not against manuals or offering a manual option. I just think at some point the benefits of streamlining the manufacturing costs outweigh the benefit the trying to satisfy a small and shrinking demographic. Conversely, I'd love to see what a GT350 could do with a DCT or even a properly calibrated 10r80.

If the GT350 had a 10R80 it could outrun a 460HP Gt with the the 10R80 on the strip!

 

[Norm Peterson]

Clearly there are bragging rights on the line for the Manufacturers. These people take tremendous pride in these projects and they are not going to handicap their potential performance in the name of tradition or to satisfy a few purists. If one transmission can satisfy 80-90% of buyers while providing the best performance #'s it likely becomes a poor financial decision to offer a 2nd application specific transmission option as well.

Let me guess . . . you've never had to deal with mfrs abandoning anything this significant about what you want in a car. It's much, much easier to repeat the mfr's business case when it doesn't affect you personally.


Norm

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I've driven DCTs on the track and I felt it took a lot of the fun out.

I have too - a few Porsches, a Challenge F-Car, BMWs and one tuned GT-R (i've driven more of these, just not on track) - the experience was pretty fantastic, a few of those cars were __extremely__ fast, I was shifting *manually*, working on my line, my braking technique, dealing with traffic/passing/being passed I guess ATEOTD, not pushing a clutch with my foot didn't detract.

If one transmission can satisfy 80-90% of buyers while providing the best performance #'s it likely becomes a poor financial decision to offer a 2nd application specific transmission option as well.

Yep, and I'd say while it might not satisfy 10-20% of __potential__ buyers, there will be 100% of the car purchased by the other 80-90% anyway

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

Let me guess . . . you've never had to deal with mfrs abandoning anything this significant about what you want in a car. It's much, much easier to repeat the mfr's business case when it doesn't affect you personally.


Norm

Norm, I get it. You feel as though the driving experience will be so muted that the the car has no appeal to you and that sucks, but the mfr's business case is the only reason you get the opportunity to drive these cars. Historically manual transmissions have been offered as standard equipment, maybe going forward they could offer a manual as on option and pass the development costs onto the buyer if that is a factor in their decision not to offer going forward.

I suggest you drive the 500 at least before you pass judgment on whether it's something you would enjoy driving...less than that is just being spiteful.

 

[LSchicago]

Norm, I get it. You feel as though the driving experience will be so muted that the the car has no appeal to you and that sucks, but the mfr's business case is the only reason you get the opportunity to drive these cars. Historically manual transmissions have been offered as standard equipment, maybe going forward they could offer a manual as on option and pass the development costs onto the buyer if that is a factor in their decision not to offer going forward.

I suggest you drive the 500 at least before you pass judgment on whether it's something you would enjoy driving...less than that is just being spiteful.

If Henry Ford had his way, we'd still be driving model T's. But as stubborn as he was, he was eventually convinced that technology had left the T behind.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm, I get it. You feel as though the driving experience will be so muted that the the car has no appeal to you and that sucks

Deeper than that. Depending on its programming, automated transmission gear selection has greater or lesser likelihood of working at cross-purposes to my intentions as the driver. But it's nearly always going to be just a little "out of step". That's an annoyance I really don't need to be putting up with, in something that I'd be spending well over $30k of my own money for.

, but the mfr's business case is the only reason you get the opportunity to drive these cars. Historically manual transmissions have been offered as standard equipment, maybe going forward they could offer a manual as on option and pass the development costs onto the buyer if that is a factor in their decision not to offer going forward.

The notion of a manual transmission becoming the extra-cost transmission option first occurred to me a lot longer ago than you'd likely guess. Longer ago than I've been on Internet forums, way longer than I've been on most Mustang forums, way way WAY longer than I've been on this one. Just so you know, I wouldn't balk at a $ figure comparable to recent AT pricing premiums.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I have too - a few Porsches, a Challenge F-Car, BMWs and one tuned GT-R (i've driven more of these, just not on track) - the experience was pretty fantastic, a few of those cars were __extremely__ fast, I was shifting *manually*, working on my line, my braking technique, dealing with traffic/passing/being passed I guess ATEOTD, not pushing a clutch with my foot didn't detract.

I've posted before that I'd find a DCT - even as currently offered - more suitable on the track than on the street. Certainly more enjoyable.


Norm

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

The notion of a manual transmission becoming the extra-cost transmission option first occurred to me a lot longer ago than you'd likely guess. Longer ago than I've been on Internet forums, way longer than I've been on most Mustang forums, way way WAY longer than I've been on this one. Just so you know, I wouldn't balk at a $ figure comparable to recent AT pricing premiums.


Norm

It's going to be interesting to learn the MSRP of the GT500, because that DCT cannot be inexpensive and with so few units being produced in the grand scheme it has to have a substantial effect on unit cost. The 10r80 can be offered at $1700 because its development costs are spread out over hundreds of thousands of units. What does that DCT cost Ford? $5k $7500? $10k?

The 10r80 going into the ZLE shows it is quite capable of performing on a road course. The DCT has to be on another level or it was a mistake imo. Ford should have offerd a TR-6060/10r80 combo unless the DCT is in another world performance wise

 

[detamble13]

The GT500 appeals to a small number to begin with. By dismissing the manual transmission you reduce the number of potential buyers even further.
Ford is keeping the Mustang as the sole car in their lineup because of what it represents for the brand. Similarly the availability of a manual transmission has been an important part of every high performance Mustang variant and should be carried on.

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