5.0 coyote low end torque...or lack thereof?

[Buellracer]

Revolution automotive in Baltimore . Did before and after dynos to see gains from both the email tune and from the gt350 intake.

09jsw, what headers and catback you running? So far I've only got a Borla S type cat back but looking for headers and CAI before I go dyno tune. I've been seriously considering the GT350 IM also.

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[toplesstripcruiser]

Maybe it's just your car? I can shift at 2k and still get decent acceleration, while maximizing MPG. I mean this is a 5.0 liter V8, not a little 2.0 liter turbo 4. By comparison if I shift my Evo at 2k it will lug. I have to at least bring it to 3k.

 

[SVT Wylde]

I just sold a 02 Lightning with a 6lb pulley, ported blower, Dyno tune, and valve body. It was a torque monster from 0-100mph.

My 16 GT A6 is a totally different animal but I think a lot of the feeling of "lack of torque" is the drive by wire throttle. I'm going to order a Pedalmax kit and see if that helps since I'm not tuning it under warranty.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

My tune didn't change after adding headers. Lund disabled the rear o2 sensor right from the get go - pretty sure that is the only 'header specific' thing that they do to their tunes.

Interesting that Lund does that. I have seen a ton of dyno sheets that have a considerable TQ increase after adding LT from 2500-4000RPM. They are supposed to add midrange torque.

Ive done the tune, headers etc to help increase power on my car. Nothing really helped its down low grunt and part throttle acceleration.
Now as others have stated, adding a PD blower fixes everything.
While im NOT IN BOOST, partial throttle in the lower RPM feels more like my old Pushrod engines.
There's actually useable power down low. My KB really changed the car 100% and now it seriously drives better than stock

If you did not gain any TQ down low or part throttle acceleration/response, your tuner is not doing things the right way.

I picked up 18hp from my "header" email tune and a dyno tune. Most of the changes were made to cam timing which made a huge dif in low end and over tq. Lund tune I made 376tq with dyno tune and same mods I made 404.

This is exactly what I am used to seeing on these cars after adding LTs. It should be a nice improvement in midrange TQ on these cars.

Biggest gains I felt on my 2013 were low end to midrange actually. If you look at a lot of the dyno runs you'll see up to 25-30ft/lb gains from the headers alone and peak hp gains up top around 17-20 whp.

Exactly:cheers:

Its all in the tune, My car was over 300 ft lbs from 3k to 6k. All it has is a JLT, suitcase delete and a tune (manual car)

Exactly! All in the tune for sure.



This is my car going from the factory tune on 93 with Steeda CAI an catback in 95 degree weather. The blue line is the factory tune and the green line is a flexfuel tune on E80 with only 26 degrees of timing. My car pulls like a freight train now up to 7300-7400RPM. From 4k up, the difference is huge and I mean really huge. It will spin my 305/35 Goodyear Supercar G2 tires that are sticky as hell in the heat down here in GA in a 2nd gear roll. Before the tune, it would not do that at all.

I will get a dedicated E85 race tune where he will add in a bunch more timing (31-32 degrees) and should add another 10RWHP and a bit more TQ that I will use when running on the drag strip.

 

[foghat]

Interesting that Lund does that. I have seen a ton of dyno sheets that have a considerable TQ increase after adding LT from 2500-4000RPM. They are supposed to add midrange torque.

I'm not saying there was not a considerable gain from the headers, just that Lund does not tune much differently (or at least didn't a year ago) for headers - they do not change tivct.

They do disable the rear o2 sensor, disable the CAT Overtemp Logic and tweak the adaptive O2 transport delay logic so the ecu more quickly adapts to the O2s being further downstream on the header.

At least that is what they told me, there may be other things they do that he didn't mention.

 

[15GTBEN]

Then drive those

I'm not complaining...my 3.55 auto GT has plenty of low end grunt for me and way more than my wife's cars. Just empathizing with others.

 

[Terminator2]

Interesting that Lund does that. I have seen a ton of dyno sheets that have a considerable TQ increase after adding LT from 2500-4000RPM. They are supposed to add midrange torque.

If you did not gain any TQ down low or part throttle acceleration/response, your tuner is not doing things the right way.

This is exactly what I am used to seeing on these cars after adding LTs. It should be a nice improvement in midrange TQ on these cars.

Exactly:cheers:

Exactly! All in the tune for sure.



This is my car going from the factory tune on 93 with Steeda CAI an catback in 95 degree weather. The blue line is the factory tune and the green line is a flexfuel tune on E80 with only 26 degrees of timing. My car pulls like a freight train now up to 7300-7400RPM. From 4k up, the difference is huge and I mean really huge. It will spin my 305/35 Goodyear Supercar G2 tires that are sticky as hell in the heat down here in GA in a 2nd gear roll. Before the tune, it would not do that at all.

I will get a dedicated E85 race tune where he will add in a bunch more timing (31-32 degrees) and should add another 10RWHP and a bit more TQ that I will use when running on the drag strip.

MBT timing on E-85 is around 30-31 degrees so yes 26 degrees on E-85 is limiting slightly I run 27-29 on 93. 29 is max at 7000 where torque is falling off though its mostly 27-28*.

 

[Terminator2]

I'm not saying there was not a considerable gain from the headers, just that Lund does not tune much differently (or at least didn't a year ago) for headers - they do not change tivct.

They do disable the rear o2 sensor, disable the CAT Overtemp Logic and tweak the adaptive O2 transport delay logic so the ecu more quickly adapts to the O2s being further downstream on the header.

At least that is what they told me, there may be other things they do that he didn't mention.

Im putting long tubes on in a couple days but I most likely won't touch my optimum power cam angles until I finalize my NA mods setup because I need to do it with my car strapped to a dyno to see the gains or lack there of between different amounts of overlap and advance and retard. It will probably take me 2 hours in the dyno to optimize it.

 

[Derek@Lethal]

Low end torque tends to come from longer stroke/smaller bore engines. The coyote is a short stroke/large bore engine. We used to call these "overbore" versus "underbore" engines. As a young man I used to race big block dodge wedge motors. Very torquey, longer stroke smaller bore engines like the 440 and 426 wedge. In the early 90's I moved over to small block Fords. A very different beast. I had to build for HP at higher rpm and gear for torque.
IIRC the GM engines have a longer stroke than the coyote and will be their nature deliver more down low torque

The Coyote is almost square, actually, and has a slightly longer stroke than bore. The old pushrod 302 was a large bore/short stroke engine. The coyote measures 3.629" bore/3.649" stroke where the push rod motor was 4.00" bore/3.00" stroke. :cheers:

The main reason this motor has a feeling of not being torquey is because of the top end package (heads, intake manifold and cams). You can put a F150 intake manifold and cams on your motor if you want more low end torque ;)

Like [MENTION=18786]LETHAL[/MENTION] said, my car lays stripes mashing at 1500 rpm in 2nd and 3rd (when it hooks). More often than not, even with my 3.31's, nailing it in 2nd from a slow roll just lights the tires up. My car did this stock and it's more prevalent with the Lund tune.

 

[BluByeU]

Honestly you guys have been spoiled by fast cars if you think it's lacking torque. Try driving a 4 cylinder Accord around for a while.

Funny you mention this, I went back east for about a week and a half and while there I rented an economy car, very small and had snails passing me up LOL. Get back in my car yesterday/today and was like hell yeah!
The S550/5.0 performs well right outta the box, but yes, there is room for improvement - hence mod city!

 

[BmacIL]

Funny you mention this, I went back east for about a week and a half and while there I rented an economy car, very small and had snails passing me up LOL. Get back in my car yesterday/today and was like hell yeah!
The S550/5.0 performs well right outta the box, but yes, there is room for improvement - hence mod city!

No argument there! I just found it hard to label this engine as lacking.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

MBT timing on E-85 is around 30-31 degrees so yes 26 degrees on E-85 is limiting slightly I run 27-29 on 93. 29 is max at 7000 where torque is falling off though its mostly 27-28*.

Thanks for sharing your info. I appreciate that. You tune your own car, too, right? I think I remember you saying that.

Since this is a tuner doing my tune, there is some hesitancy to push it on the flexfuel tune since there is a small chance I would have to run 93 so I agreed to leave it where it is (makes great power and runs amazing as it sits) and then get a dedicated E85 race tune (that's what I will call it) that will give another bump in power on E85 and in all honesty, I will run that tune all the time unless I have to put 93 for long trips, then just switch back to the flexfuel.

How much timing are you running if you have a dedicated E85 tune? That is, if you don't mind sharing.

 

[15GTBEN]

No argument there! I just found it hard to label this engine as lacking.

It's not that the engine is lacking as it performs quite well but it "feels" short on low end grunt for 400tq. The autos seem to mask it better.

Go test drive a 16 Camaro SS or scatpack and you'll clearly see what I'm talking about...

 

[Terminator2]

Thanks for sharing your info. I appreciate that. You tune your own car, too, right? I think I remember you saying that.

Since this is a tuner doing my tune, there is some hesitancy to push it on the flexfuel tune since there is a small chance I would have to run 93 so I agreed to leave it where it is (makes great power and runs amazing as it sits) and then get a dedicated E85 race tune (that's what I will call it) that will give another bump in power on E85 and in all honesty, I will run that tune all the time unless I have to put 93 for long trips, then just switch back to the flexfuel.

How much timing are you running if you have a dedicated E85 tune? That is, if you don't mind sharing.

Yes I tune my own car via hp tuners.

 

[BmacIL]

It's not that the engine is lacking as it performs quite well but it "feels" short on low end grunt for 400tq. The autos seem to mask it better.

Go test drive a 16 Camaro SS or scatpack and you'll clearly see what I'm talking about...

But I won't be able to see anything! :lol:

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