Why so heavy....?

[TheLion]

Out of sheer morbid curiosity, has anyone ever figured out why all the GT's in the review mags are 100 lbs to 150 lbs HEAVIER than the base weights stated by Ford?

BMR scaled a 2015 6M PP and 2015 6A Base. 6M came in at 3736 on their scale and 6A at 3704.

2015-2017 GT 6M Base: 3705 lbs

2015-2017 GT 6A Base: 3729 lbs

2016-2018 Camar 1SS: 3685 lbs

So their scale is about 25 lbs off of the factory weights. So their 6M PP GT was really about 3761 lbs (using the 6A base weight they got vs. Ford's spec).

Strangely in all of the reviews the GT's they test are always well over 3800 lbs yet the SS's range from 3685 lbs up to the heaviest fully loaded A8 at 3760 lbs. The two chassis are very close in weight, but it seems like the GT's get very bloated very quickly when optioned.

C&D's 6M SS weighed 3718 lbs, sounds about right. Yet their GT PP Premium was 3817 lbs....almost exactly 100 lbs heavier than their SS tested with Magnaride and active exhaust.

By my calculations the GT's should be running a decent amount lighter even with the Performance Package if optioned lightly:

PP K-brace + Strut Tower Brace weight gain: 18
PP wheels weight gain: 32
PP Front Rotors, Calipers and Pads weight gain: 7
PP Sway Bars weight gain: 2
GT PP Loaded Hood: 5
Total weight gain over base: 64
Ford Base Model Weight: 3705
Base Model GT + PP: 3769 lbs

The only item I know of for PP GT's not on the "what things weigh" list that is different for PP cars vs base is the radiator / oil cooler. Could be another 10 lbs there as well.

Worst case then is 3769 + 10 lbs = 3779 lbs. Where's the extra 38 lbs coming from? Even at 3800 lbs, it's still within 100 lbs of a similarly optioned SS. 50 lbs takes about an extra 5 hp or 100 lbs takes about another 10 hp to make up for. Not much.

I'm just curious what it is in some of the GT's that's adding so much more weight. A base PP GT with Ford Performance exhaust and lightweight wheels should come in at just a hair above 3700, almost identical to a base SS.

2018's have the same base weight listed at 3705 as well but I've seen them tipping the scales 3878 lbs! That's well over 170 lbs heavier than the base weight. Not sure where it's all going...:doh:.

An easy way to bias the older 2015-2017 GT's to match the SS power to weight ratio is actually quite simple:

1. Light weight wheels shave 32 lbs to 46 lbs (without using expensive Forged).
2. Ford Performance or Magnaflow's exhausts both shave 30 lbs or something like the Corsa and similar are about 10 lbs ~ 15 lbs lighter on average.
3. Power Pack 2 with an exhaust and 93 octane makes about 465~470 HP at the crank (415 ~ 420 at the wheels).

Your power to weight ratio changes from 8.8 lbs / hp bone stock down to 8.0 lbs / hp flat. Base SS runs 8.1 lb / hp, a fully loaded 6M ss runs about 8.2 lbs / hp. Even with no weight reduction, Power Pack 2 and an exhaust put you at 8.1 lbs / hp. Not too shabby considering you can find 2015-2017's pretty cheap now and still do that under factory warranty (pending the miles are low enough).

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[BmacIL]

Premium cars are about 40 lbs heavier, no other changes. That's mainly from the seat hardware, seating surfaces, 3 additional speakers & wiring, heavier infotainment and HVAC, and a slightly heavier rear bumper assembly, among a few other small items. If they're fully optioned (subwoofer, BLIS, adaptive cruise, etc), 60-80.

 

[Zeke.Malvo]

They sure are piggies

 

[TheLion]

I found some more weight. R/T weighed their lightly optioned GT PP at 3788 lbs. I believe it was similar to mine, base model 301A with Performance Package only to keep things lightweight.

My calculations put a lightly optioned GT PP at 3780 lbs. The Torsen is the only other difference and I'm not sure if there's a few extra lbs in the Torsen loaded diff vs. the standard traction lock or not, but below is all the PP items weight gain compared to base.

PP radiator is a tad heavier and wasn't on the list but I found the specs and even included weight gain from the added coolant capacity:
OEM GT PP Radiator: 19.2lbs 50.9lbs full
OEM GT PP Coolant: 15.2qts / 31.7lbs
OEM GT Base Radiator: 14.5lbs 42.8lbs full
OEM GT Base Coolant: 13.6qts / 28.3lbs
OEM GT PP Water-Oil-Cooler (weight gain over base oil filter adapter): 2.5lbs

So here is a summary of the weight gain over base model when optioned with just the Performance Package:

PP K-brace + Strut Tower Brace weight gain: 18 lbs
PP wheels weight gain: 32 lbs
PP Front Rotors, Calipers and Pads weight gain: 7 lbs
PP Sway Bars weight gain: 2 lbs
GT PP Loaded Hood: 5 lbs
Performance Pack Radiator + Oil Cooler: 11 lbs
Total weight gain over base: 75 lbs
Ford Base Model Weight: 3705 lbs
Final GT PP Weight (no other options): 3780 lbs

The 2017 SS 1LE gains weight as well, actually about the same amount over base. Car and driver weighed the 6M 1LE at 3747 lbs. I've seen 2SS 6M's come in around 3718 lbs. I think the SS even with it's Alpha chassis and the GT are nearly identical in weight. Within about 50 lbs. The GT just gains more because there's more crap to put in and Ford is not quite as weigh conscious when optioning it up.

2016-2018 1SS Base Weight: 3685 lbs (Chevy)
205-2018 GT Base Weight: 3705 lbs (Ford)

2017 SS 1LE: 3747 lbs (C&D)
2015-2017 GT PP: 3780 lbs (C&D's was a Premium PP GT at 3817 lbs)
2016-2018 Full Loaded 2SS 6M: 3718 lbs (C&D)

BMR scaled a base 6A GT at 3704 lbs. Ford spec for that car is 3729 so BMR's scale is about 25 lbs off (usually they are 1~2% accuracy deviation so that's normal). They scaled a Performance Package only GT 6M at 3736 lbs. Adding 25 lbs back in that 3761 lbs. Pretty close to my calculations for a PP only GT (not sure how full the gas tank was on those cars).

I realize the 2015-2017 GT PP is more equivalent in suspension setup and tuning to a 1SS or 2SS (non-1LE) while being down on average power by about 30 hp and 60 some lbs heavier (the LT1's midrange increases the average deficit over the peak difference of 20 hp) where the 1LE is set up far more like the GT350(R) but with less power than the GT350(R). But in terms of weight, they are all darn close unless you get a GT Premium with the Performance Package, then your well past 3800 lbs or a loaded 2SS 8A which is well pasted 3760 lbs.

Is it just me or is the weight difference between the GT an SS massively over blown by not just the review magazines, but also by the forums?

My RTR Tech 7's with 285/35R19's come in at 204 lbs total, stock PP tires and wheels clock in at 250 lbs combined. There's 46 lbs right there with just a set of tires and wheels. 1LE's already use light weight Forged wheels, but I do not believe the 1/2SS's do.

My Crosa Sport cat back is 7 lbs lighter than stock so that drops my particular PP GT down to a respectable 3735 lbs. Just 50 lbs heavier than a Base Model bare bones 1SS and within just 17 lbs of of a loaded 2SS and lighter than the 1LE by 12 lbs. Not much of a difference, not enough to matter.

A Ford Performance cat back is 30 lbs lighter if you go that route, you'd be down to just 3712 lbs for a PP only GT with a lightweight wheel and exhaust setup. Not sure that 23 lbs will really matter on my car even on a track, but if your tring to shave every last lb on mods your already likely to do (most people do exhaust and a second set of tires and wheels) it's worth consideration. Assuming both cars make similar power, if your within 50 lbs difference in total weight I have a hard time beleiving it will matter.

Take the 1LE for example. It's 62 lbs heavier than a 1/2SS but substantially faster because of the improvements. The trade off in a slight weight increase (with no power adders) is quite an advantage. A Power Pack 2 with an X-pipe will make a little more average power than a stock LT1 6.2L or about the same as a light bolt on LT1 with a CAI or cat back (within 5~10 hp of each other average).

Power to weight ratio of a bone stock 1LE is 8.24 lbs / HP. My particular PP GT with current mods is 8.03 lbs / HP. I paid $27,750 for my 2016 GT PP with a Corsa Extreme cat back already on it. The GT is the under dog for sure. It's right in the middle of the Camaro SS and Challenger / Charger R/T offerings from Chevy and Dodge as far as track performance goes, but has the potential of the 1LE with good suspension tuning and a $600 Power Pack. Not too shabby.

I chose 285/35R19's because that's the profile Ford Performance uses for their track cars and it's a common profile for auto x. Also shaves 3 lbs per tire over 275/40R19's and provides better feedback to the driver / lateral acceleration. Even with the smaller diameter tires, the extra 350 RPM rev range of Power Pack 2 over stock gives you an extra 1 mph in 1st and 2nd, 2 mph in 3rd, 2.5 MPH in 4th and 3 MPH in 5th. It's a win win combination and your final drive also very slightly decreases. It's a very fast combination for track or auto x. PP3 would be even better.

 

[nastang87xx]

I think you're kinda over analyzing here for the sake of not losing sleep however I get it. But simply put, stuff just adds up. Sheet metal, fasteners, glass thickness, interior materials...everything. The Coyote engine is also very heavy. The LT1 weighs around 430lbs without accessories. The Coyote weighs about 450+ without accessories (more valvetrain, more head, more springs...again, EVERYTHING adds up). That is a 20lb+ advantage right there. Then there's the steel unibody. The Alpha chassis unibody is primarily steel with the exception of the dash support which is aluminum that saved like 12lbs or something. But most of the suspension is also aluminum. The Camaro also uses less sheet metal on the body and less glass. Most of the suspension components are also aluminum and cross drilled. That is not the case with the Mustang. This also brings up durability concerns though in certain areas such as the Camaro SS's diff housing. Then there's the wonderful exhaust suitcase on the GT's.

Now here's an interesting comparison. The GT350 Track Pack is 3790lbs. The SS 1LE is 3747 as you put which is true. That's a 43lbs difference. The Voodoo engine weighs about 15lbs heavier than the 1LT. The front wheels and tires are also a few lbs heavier each than the SS 1LE (about 6 lbs). Do some simple math and then you realize if Ford used an aluminum dash support (minus another 10lbs) and didn't use as much sheet metal, they're so neck and neck it's not even funny. But again, this is splitting hairs SO thinly that how much does it really matter? And this is a case of coulda shoulda woulda. Just be a better driver.

Consider this too, the $200K+ Mercedes AMG GTR which is a TWO seater weighs mid 3600lbs. The Corvette ZR1 weighs mid 3500's. The Grand Sport weighs low 3400lbs. Welcome to the new "lightweight."

 

[BmacIL]

And then you have the fact that unless you're a 170 lb driver, it won't really matter. I could lose more weight than the difference between the GT350 and the SS 1LE.

 

[WildHorse]

My 17' bone stock (at the time) Base GT on a cert scale weighed in at 3580lbs with a 1/3 tank of fuel.

 

[02gtnh]

My 17' bone stock (at the time) Base GT on a cert scale weighed in at 3580lbs with a 1/3 tank of fuel.

Must of been a Canadian scale.:lol:

 

[WildHorse]

Must of been a Canadian scale.:lol:

Made with pride in the USA.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Coyote engine is top heavy compared to an LS... where the weight is on a vertical plane is worth paying attention to, as well.

 

[hiccup]

Try to keep tire diameters as stock or greater otherwise your just logging additional miles that you never actually driven..

 

[Hack]

Coyote engine is top heavy compared to an LS... where the weight is on a vertical plane is worth paying attention to, as well.

There isn't that much difference. The LS has all the material in the cam area where there's nothing in the Ford OHC engines.

The improved performance is worth it. LS motors are perfect for pickups and station wagons, not as good for performance vehicles.

 

[azsnake]

Consider this too, the $200K+ Mercedes AMG GTR which is a TWO seater weighs mid 3600lbs. The Corvette ZR1 weighs mid 3500's. The Grand Sport weighs low 3400lbs. Welcome to the new "lightweight."

Good god, my 98 Cobra vert weighed only 3500lbs and you would figure a 200K car would be have more light weight material used. Ever increasing crash standards kill the weight as well

 

[HoosierDaddy]

What is a PP Loaded Hood? I hadn't heard the PP had a different hood.

 

[kz]

Did anyone account for the strut tower brace (and k-brace) in the pp vs. non-pp car ?

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