Why I am putting 10W40 in my Coyote Gen3

[GregO]

Ow40 is what i use in the winter.
5w50 is what i use in the summer.

FlyHalf, What brand do you use ?

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[shogun32]

More 10W-xx Wet Clutch oil spec. gibberish.

10w is 10w - the presence or not of friction modifiers is utterly irrelevant. If you can't grok that then read a book on the subject.

I brought up an ancient bike again (in addition to current Honda car tech) to show just how pathetic American tolerances are that a cheap-ass motor from the 70's was held to vastly tighter tolerances in an application that suffered vastly more heat and mechanical stress.

The only reason the oil market has gravitated heavily toward 5wXX is because they are chasing MPG nonsense. It's not because the engine tolerances are so vastly narrowed, or the various oil-driven things can only work at 5w viscosities and would be operating outside of spec with 10w.

 

[Flyhalf]

0w40 mobil1
5w50 amsoil

I change oil very often tho so i could literally put some italian olive oil .jk

FlyHalf, What brand do you use ?

L

 

[Red65]

exactly. bearing clearance-smearance. The spec is 0.025 - 0.050". The coyote is not remotely tight clearance unless your frame of reference is the hand-hewed crap from the 60's or the pieces of shit Ford made in the 80s and identified them as "engines". The Civic type R has 1/3rd the clearance. You Detroit worshipers seem to not understand your technology and precision SUCKS ASS and is a flaming JOKE! If a Japanese designed an engine with such giant slop in it like Americans', there'd be a trail of disembroiled bodies all along the highway. American car technology is the laughing stock of the world and always has been.

The 1970's CB750 had max clearance less than the Coyote min. And it's minimum was 1/3 of the Coyote and the spec oil is 10w. "Designed for 5w" - my god man, do you get paid to shill for Ford? Your ignorance of engineering norms is astounding.

I have no interest in getting into a viscosity or manufacturing ability by country debate, I just thought it is important to note that bearing clearance is generally a % of the base circle radius of the crankshaft main/rod journal. Directly comparing the clearance differences between a full size V8 and a 750cc bike engine is very much apples to oranges.

For perspective, many popular engine models from Ferrari use ~0.004in of main and rod end clearance. A Porsche 968 has a main clearance spec of 0.0045 - 0.0120 in, with a wear limit of 0.0150 in. This is just naming a couple without going too deep trying to find tons of examples.

The coyote? 0.001 - 0.002 in on the mains and 0.001 - 0.003 on the rods. I am assuming when you saw 0.025 - 0.050, you didn't realize that was in millimeters, not inches. I would never consider the coyote with those clearance specs to be "sloppy".

 

[gone_n_60]

this is why I cancelled my Illustrated Mechanics subscription... it's all here in incredible detailed research even pro vs. con. Keep it up folks!

 

[Cory S]

I had my clearances spec'd for .0022-.0024" on the mains, and .002-.0022" on the rods. My builder suggested I run 5W-20 to 5W-40 for everything up to 8500rpm. I run PP 5W-30. He's also seen many Coyotes come in at .0009-.0015" on the mains.

 

[shogun32]

. I am assuming when you saw 0.025 - 0.050, you didn't realize that was in millimeters, not inches.

yeah oddly the doc I was looking at indeed mislabled it. I found another with mm, so that does make more sense.

In any event above -5C whether you start with 5 or 10w it doesn't matter.

 

[Red65]

yeah oddly the doc I was looking at indeed mislabled it. I found another with mm, so that does make more sense.

In any event above -5C whether you start with 5 or 10w it doesn't matter.

This is the exact reason why I absolutely despise the metric system when it comes to machining. The metric system has its benefits, but old habits die hard and with 98% of the machining in the US still being based off the inch, it's just easier to keep it that way.

 

[K4fxd]

How did Ford manage to have the same engine that can run both?

The oil is thickest when cold, so if the clearances are good for 5w cold rating anything in the warm rating will flow fine.

So a 5w-XX will work.

I'm not looking at a viscosity chart so I won't comment on if using a 10w-xx is OK

 

[RobG]

I live in Australia, currently in winter, cold here is, where I live at worst 5c. I run 10w60 Nulon race engine oil. I'm a mechanic myself, measured system oil pressure time on cold start up vs 5w50, frankly, it's fuck all different. I've previously owned a 650awhp R32 GTR, HSV's, WRX's and a multitude of other performance cars. Oil viscosity at operating temp is the same. Seeing as I bought the car 4 months ago, and done the change myself, I will be having sample testing done. This is what needs to be performed, and correlated with the oil manufacturer you use, to determine what oil you should move too, short of pulling down the motor and measuring the equipment itself. Ford throws numbers like 5w20, to 5w50 to 5w30 around, but that's also generally based on machine use, in a certain are, based on a certain environment, largely in controlled environments. I have a tune coming up in 6 weeks, I work away 2 weeks at a time and home 1, and I will be sending the sample away when I get home to determine if the oil is fine or needs changing before tuning. Will post results.

 

[CORNYOTE]

I run Driven 5W50 and oil analysis has been really good. I'm a 1000whp whipple car though.

 

[GregO]

Unrelated to the Coyote and “W”rating. GM has moved the Corvette into 0W-40 street, track and geographical location, doesn’t matter.

 

[Red65]

Unrelated to the Coyote and “W”rating. GM has moved the Corvette into 0W-40 street, track and geographical location, doesn’t matter.

I think we will see more of the 0w40/0w50 stuff becoming more common with performance cars, if the EPA doesn't try to strangle it anymore. Traditionally, engine oil with a very low base oil weight (0-5 weight) with a wide spread between its cold and warm nominal viscosity values were typically unstable. But I am assuming they have figured out how to cover that issue with it being more prevalent and seeming to work great.

 

[shogun32]

Traditionally, engine oil with a very low base oil weight (0-5 weight) with a wide spread between its cold and warm nominal viscosity values were typically unstable. But I am assuming they have figured out how to cover that issue with it being more prevalent and seeming to work great.

or everybody's lying about the "new" increased rate of wear and forcing "early" retirement of an engine that could have lasted far longer.

actually the improvement in coiled polymer strands' strength has no doubt been real and why they can pull off 0w40 etc. Since the oil is separate from trans, there are far less teeth trying to chop them up.

That said Motorcraft 5w50 is known to "quickly" degrade to 40 after limited use because the polymers break down. Maybe that's not true anymore but it's an old wive's tale from the 90's when they were using sub-standard filaments.

 

[Red65]

or everybody's lying about the "new" increased rate of wear and forcing "early" retirement of an engine that could have lasted far longer.

actually the improvement in coiled polymer strands' strength has no doubt been real and why they can pull off 0w40 etc. Since the oil is separate from trans, there are far less teeth trying to chop them up.

That said Motorcraft 5w50 is known to "quickly" degrade to 40 after limited use because the polymers break down. Maybe that's not true anymore but it's an old wive's tale from the 90's when they were using sub-standard filaments.

Yea this is really what I was referring to. Admittedly I haven't done much research on the specifics, it was just a rule of thumb I've seen from a long time ago. Oil has come a long way, and low weight base oils with wide nominal weight spreads must be working good since F1 allegedly uses 0w-70.

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