Why do the tax brackets end at ~600k?

[Docscurlock]

Awe, now we are getting somewhere. This could not be further from the truth. Easy to say when you're a man, but we're off topic again, my fault.

Who is playing the victim now.? Is that what this is all about, you're mad you didn't get a raise or a promotion you thought you deserved? This is America, we all have the same opportunities to make something of ourselves. We could fill up a book with "disadvantaged" people who are successful. It's already been decided that the half of the population of this country lacking male genitalia can be anything they want. 1 even recently ran for President(gasp) ! Victim mentality is an old worn out story. We left royalty and serfdom behind us in Europe long ago. Everyone is born with a brain and two hands (well most of us) it's up to us to decide whether to use them to make ourselves better or be a whiny bitch our entire lives and complain that someone has more.

Sponsored

 

[Docscurlock]

[QUOTE="LMS5400, post: 2656422, member: 44353"

Example 2

• Dude A makes 100m
• Dude B makes 200m (pays a negligible amount more tax relative to income, effectively he is taxed like the dude A)

Why do we have a progressive tax system if we only apply it to some levels but not all?
[/QUOTE]
Which is exactly double the amount in real dollars.

 

[LMS5400]

Which is exactly double the amount in real dollars.

but not double the taxes, its more.

100k to 200k

thats my point.

why?

A: progress tax burdens the middle class and upper middle class the most.

1. I assert it should go away (e.g. a flat tax)
2. or increase to capture all income levels.

flat tax would probably wreak havoc on the lower class, so that option is not realistic until we address living standard and equality issues. But we can fix the progress tax.

 

[Docscurlock]

but not double the taxes, its more.

100k to 200k

thats my point.

why?

A: progress tax burdens the middle class and upper middle class the most.

1. I assert it should go away (e.g. a flat tax)
2. or increase to capture all income levels.

flat tax would probably wreak havoc on the lower class, so that option is not realistic until we address living standard and equality issues. But we can fix the progress tax.

Are you drinking as you write these posts or are you very math challenged? You switched from 100m in your post to 100k in your reply. The guy making $100m at 37% pays $37m in taxes, his personal write offs are probably negligible. Guy making $100k after personal deductions has a taxable income of maybe $65k, taxable rate of probably 24%, pays ~$15000 in federal taxes, less if he has kids. How can you even compare $15k in taxes to $37m in taxes. You are not even making sense anymore. We have a progressive tax scale already to help the lower income brackets pay less of their income in taxes and take more from the higher brackets (ie 24-37%). The only solution to your problem is if everyone makes $100m a year and then we use a flat tax. good luck with that one

 

[shogun32]

I do feel some progressive tax makes sense since many people live paycheck to paycheck for a lot of reasons outside their control, but the burden is squarely on the middle class relative to the ultra wealthy.

Why do you rob the rich? Because that's who has the money!

The problem with the current USA tax code (as if there aren't a zillion problems) is that the rich (let's call it 500K gross income or more, but NOT a sole-proprietor) have all kinds of ways to *legally* manage their funds to get WAY below the confiscatory rates be they standard stable or AMT (alternative minimum tax). The 'poors' (300k below) are rarely able to stomach the opportunity or transaction/legal costs.

We have a very serious economic and social problem with the 50% or so of legitimate population which is suffering under zero-interest, out of sight medical costs thru criminal violation of 100yr old statute, preposterous housing costs from real estate speculation by all and sundry, lousy wages (in relation to cost of living and criminal destruction of currency buying power) of which rampant criminal abuse of H1B visa and similar programs, not to mention the whole invasion from Mexico and points south are contributing factors.

If you do not manufacture, you do not have a viable economy.

All that said, everybody who is in this country should be contributing to the gov't that is supposedly providing them with valuable benefits per the social contract. Maybe it's only 7% for those under 50K/yr but it is wrong to allow something like half the voting public to not suffer the economic consequences of their voting decisions. If you want to vote yourself somebody else's money, it better come out of your own hide, too. If you're substantially on the dole, you don't get to vote. period.

The major point missed in these kinds of "how much should society steal from the rich to theoretically benefit the poor" is that our Constitution expressly PROHIBITS the creation of different classes of people - eg. nobility and surfs. So any law that doesn't levy taxes at the same rate is null and void. And yet in a mere 200 years we've allowed the wholesale creation of nobility and special privileges only accorded to them. Once you go down that road it degenerates into endless rounds of gimme-dat "because unfair".

Social Security is an accounting fraud. The USG has no qualms just printing money by the Empire State building load, so just return everyone's money and if you are destitute in your old age, maybe we just have a $300/wk stipend indexed to local COLA and HONEST currency debasement (aka inflation) calculations.

You want a lesson in what happens when a poor, ignorant mass votes themselves a gov't that will give them what they want, check out the socialist paradise that is Venezuela.

 

[LMS5400]

The old it will turn us into Venezuela!

If you want to know what Bernie wants to do in 1 min, this pretty much sums it up in the words of an Oncologists

youtube.com/watch?v=pm9B0MHqRzQ&t=1m30s

Also, I get the loop holes and I agree, but that does not change the tax brackets.

@Docscurlock "Are you drinking as you write these posts or are you very math challenged"

I'm math challenged. Can we move on from that now? Or do you want to keep the personal insults going?

And this is really not a math problem so much as seeing the tax law from a different perspective. It's not about how much tax a person pays, it's about how much % of their income they pay and probably more importantly, how much % that is contrasted to how much they can save -- that is in fact the essence of the progressive tax law and why it gives a break to lower wage workers. Making millions a year, even at high tax rate is very easy to save money since most of the things we buy don't cost more for a multi-millionaire. Now I fully support and get that people who earn this income deserve it and are entitled to enjoy it. But why does going to 100k to 200k force you to pay more taxes where 100m to 200m does not?

Now contrast that question with the fact that the wealthy, while they pay the MOST taxes, also have disproportionately the most wealth. In other words, you can claim the top 1% pays 40% of all taxes (or whatever the # is), but if they have 60% of all weath, well.,, that should disprove they are taxed too much right there. They are able to save and accrue wealth like you and I can't even imagine. I'm not saying we tax them to high hell.

Historically we have had a lot more brackets and at a lot higher rates. The US didn't suffer and in a lot of ways, the middle class was strongest during that time. It's not anymore. Did we have a mass export of rich people from 1930 to 1980? no.

 

[Docscurlock]

@Docscurlock "Are you drinking as you write these posts or are you very math challenged"

I'm math challenged. Can we move on from that now? Or do you want to keep the personal insults going?
If you can't understand basic math there is no way to have an intelligent conversation about taxes.

And this is really not a math problem so much as seeing the tax law from a different perspective. It's not about how much tax a person pays, it's about how much % of their income they pay and probably more importantly, how much % that is contrasted to how much they can save -- that is in fact the essence of the progressive tax law and why it gives a break to lower wage workers. Making millions a year, even at high tax rate is very easy to save money since most of the things we buy don't cost more for a multi-millionaire. Now I fully support and get that people who earn this income deserve it and are entitled to enjoy it. But why does going to 100k to 200k force you to pay more taxes where 100m to 200m does not?

Because our already progressive scale is graduated to a high of over 1/3 of your income. If you are successful enough to be a multimillionaire why should a guy that is admittedly math challenged get to decide how his wealth is spent?

Now contrast that question with the fact that the wealthy, while they pay the MOST taxes, also have disproportionately the most wealth. In other words, you can claim the top 1% pays 40% of all taxes (or whatever the # is), but if they have 60% of all weath, well.,, that should disprove they are taxed too much right there. They are able to save and accrue wealth like you and I can't even imagine. I'm not saying we tax them to high hell.

They have the most wealth because A. They were born with it or B. They used intelligence, hard work and ingenuity to create it. It is not your's to decide what to do with it. When you go from $100m to $200m you do pay more taxes, roughly double. That is like you get one hamburger or two hamburgers, get it.

Historically we have had a lot more brackets and at a lot higher rates. The US didn't suffer and in a lot of ways, the middle class was strongest during that time. It's not anymore. Did we have a mass export of rich people from 1930 to 1980? no.

Historically, until circa 1913, the government stayed out of our personal lives and business and funded itself by tariffs, tax law as it stands was ratified by the 16th Amendment of the US, approved overwhelmingly by Democrats. It is Democrats fault (Thank you Pres Wilson, may you rot in hell along with the other creators of the Federal Reserve) that we have to pay income taxes at all, before that the government funded itself in other ways. The middle class and it's lifestyle is better now than in any point in human history. wages are up, unemployment low, there are opportunities everywhere. I may go and start up another business myself just to sell it for another couple million dollars to retire on. Then I can buy more mustangs!

 

[shogun32]

The key point missed by the demagogues on the left, especially those of the Communist persuasion, is that the rich have options and they aren't shy about packing up and leaving while the 'poors' are stuck carrying an ever larger share of the obligation pie. What Comrade Bernie has said in public in the last couple months should have totally destroyed his run for President in every way. I'll give him props for actually telling the truth of his intent even if it was unintended.

 

[Docscurlock]

The key point missed by the demagogues on the left, especially those of the Communist persuasion, is that the rich have options and they aren't shy about packing up and leaving while the 'poors' are stuck carrying an ever larger share of the obligation pie. What Comrade Bernie has said in public in the last couple months should have totally destroyed his run for President in every way. I'll give him props for actually telling the truth of his intent even if it was unintended.

My theory is that Comrade Bernie is a Russian spy planted here by Putin himself. No other reason can explain why he isn't laughed off the stage.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

My theory is that Comrade Bernie is a Russian spy planted here by Putin himself. No other reason can explain why he isn't laughed off the stage.

No. There will always be stupid people and there are plenty of people who have been indoctrinated to believe what he spews. Most people's opinions are from indoctrination or blindly following peers. I doubt even 10% of voters have any concept of critical thinking or how to apply it.

 

[Docscurlock]

No. There will always be stupid people and there are plenty of people who have been indoctrinated to believe what he spews. Most people's opinions are from indoctrination or blindly following peers. I doubt even 10% of voters have any concept of critical thinking or how to apply it.

I like my theory better.......

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I like my theory better.......

I LIKE your theory better too. Since I have less control over Putin than our schools (for example), I don't have to take part of the blame for Putin.

 

[LMS5400]

I learn that cons love to front the taxes for the rich. Next time I make a thread,

Historically, until circa 1913, the government stayed out of our personal lives and business and funded itself by tariffs, tax law as it stands was ratified by the 16th Amendment of the US, approved overwhelmingly by Democrats. It is Democrats fault (Thank you Pres Wilson, may you rot in hell along with the other creators of the Federal Reserve) that we have to pay income taxes at all, before that the government funded itself in other ways. The middle class and it's lifestyle is better now than in any point in human history. wages are up, unemployment low, there are opportunities everywhere. I may go and start up another business myself just to sell it for another couple million dollars to retire on. Then I can buy more mustangs!

Look at you, big time business builder and seller for millions! Awesome. America is working super great for you.

Only your perception about the middle class is dead wrong, but i guess that's what happens when you're way out of touch like you are.

 

[Docscurlock]

I learn that cons love to front the taxes for the rich. Next time I make a thread,


Look at you, big time business builder and seller for millions! Awesome. America is working super great for you.

Only your perception about the middle class is dead wrong, but i guess that's what happens when you're way out of touch like you are.

Just like I thought, a half man living in mom's basement trolling people who are trying to enjoy the internet. That's my car on your avatar you pissant.

 

[LMS5400]

Just like I thought, a half man living in mom's basement trolling people who are trying to enjoy the internet. That's my car on your avatar you pissant.

I found that car on the internet, I can put in my avatar, don't try and take away my Freedom, and leave my mom out of this!

Sponsored