Who will swap for the new 7.3 V8!

[TexasRebel]

They might. They might even offer a crate motor engine harness and ECM like they do for the Coyote. However, I would not expect them to integrate it into the existing new vehicle can-bus systems so that all of the integrated modules can work together. That presents all sorts of other challenges.

SAE J1939 defines pretty rigid guidelines for language on the Controller Area Network (CAN). Creating a module that can work with existing systems is easier that it seems on the developer side. You already know which messages to expect from the existing modules, and they should already be able to handle any relevant communications the new module provides. There are a few addresses open for proprietary communications, but those are all supposed to be non-critical systems on the bus.

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[engineermike]

SAE J1939 defines pretty rigid guidelines for language on the Controller Area Network (CAN). Creating a module that can work with existing systems is easier that it seems on the developer side. You already know which messages to expect from the existing modules, and they should already be able to handle any relevant communications the new module provides. There are a few addresses open for proprietary communications, but those are all supposed to be non-critical systems on the bus.

Thanks for supplying the source for your information.

You probably know that Ford makes and sells a Coyote Control Pack, intended for use when swapping the Coyote into older vehicles, street rods, and such. Would you expect that Control Pack to be plug-and-play when transplanting a Coyote into, say, a base Mustang, while keeping all functionality of all other existing systems?

 

[EcoVert]

^^^ OK, we all know per the Popular Science article that Ford's original modular engine design goal was based on it being used for both FWD and RWD vehicles. So when an engineer sits down and says "What do I need to incorporate into this engine design to make it also usable in a FWD car?", then obviously plans for FWD applications also had a role in it's design.

All of the internals are the same but the block is different for a RWD car and a FWD car. Take a 3.8 out a Taurus and try and put it in Thunderbird it ain't going to work.

 

[Erik427]

Which RWD vehicles used the modular V8 before it was ever used in FWD vehicles 5 years later?

A pre 1990 Probe based Mustang was almost first to market.
Had that happened, a FWD Stang would've been first to use this design.

People need to remember that myself and others are recalling media releases by Ford before there was a internet.

 

[Erik427]

All of the internals are the same but the block is different for a RWD car and a FWD car. Take a 3.8 out a Taurus and try and put it in Thunderbird it ain't going to work.

Very true......motor mounts and bosses are different.

 

[Erik427]

Just give me the 7.3......
Far more displacement.
Better cooling as in no dreaded #8 cylinder failure.
No brittle oil pump gears.

 

[Fatguy]

A pre 1990 Probe based Mustang was almost first to market.
Had that happened, a FWD Stang would've been first to use this design.

People need to remember that myself and others are recalling media releases by Ford before there was a internet.

Yes this was before the mainstream internet. I bet I still have all the car mags on the Probe debacle in my basement. These days it doesn’t exist unless someone uploads a scan to a server that stays on forever. Google archives stuff to tape cause they still don’t trust the current tech.


But you do raise an interesting point. If there is no corraborating material from that time, how do you weigh statements from the past. I spent a week interviewing this WW2 D-Day vet for a show I ended up putting on CTV (Canada) and later into a movie. These end up eventually in Canada’s national archives along with all the raw footage. He made some statements that sort of flew in the face of what one thought of in those times. So now you can point to a source, and actually I’m the source as I controlled what could be used or got out there. But like I said they will get the full DVCAM interviews so I’m not hiding anything.

But you do realize how easy it is to mess with history a bit if you have a hand in it. And they will point at me as the source and stand by that reputation. All good there from my perspective but at the same time my American documentarians in the States were also coming up here and interviewing Vets about their war experience and especially D-Day as that was one of the most pivotal if not “the” pivotal moment in history - and - they would put their spin on events. So I had to do my part. Canada interestingly had one of the largest armies in the world at that time and the relationship with Britain and all that was different than if you looked at it through the lens from the American perspective. It wasn’t quite the hand out to the British the Americans made it out to be.

My memory put Canada at fifth largest total army in the world in WW2 (probably because of its Commonwealth status) but Wikipedia puts it this way:

“At the end of the Second World War, Canada possessed the fourth-largest air force and fifth-largest naval surface fleet in the world, as well as the largest volunteer army ever fielded.”


But I digress. All I’m saying is that pre-internet, stuff wasn’t archieved by robots (like today) and so things get murky and memory means more. The past becomes the domain of a few that put things to videotape or paper and their editing skills can change actual history and be used as “sources” to reinforce a past that may not be totally the truth.


But that point you made was very valid and interesting...

 

[GT Pony]

A pre 1990 Probe based Mustang was almost first to market.
Had that happened, a FWD Stang would've been first to use this design.

People need to remember that myself and others are recalling media releases by Ford before there was a internet.

Yes this was before the mainstream internet. I bet I still have all the car mags on the Probe debacle in my basement. These days it doesn’t exist unless someone uploads a scan to a server that stays on forever. Google archives stuff to tape cause they still don’t trust the current tech.

I found this article on the Ford Probe, and found other similar articles describing how Ford wanted to morph the Mustang into a FWD car with either an inline 4 or V6 engine. But it then became a whole new car line called the Probe after Mustang enthusiast convinced Ford to keep the Mustang what it was.

I could not find anything saying a FWD Mustang was planned to have a V8 of any size. The whole concept of Ford neutering the Mustang into a FWD car with a 4 or 6 cylinder was because of high fuel costs at the time.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2013/05/16/cars-of-futures-past-ford-probe/

 

[GT Pony]

Too bad this didn't come to fruition by Ford ... "Boss 351 V10".

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/138-0402-boss-351-v10-mustang/

 

[tw557]

Just give me the 7.3......
Far more displacement.
Better cooling as in no dreaded #8 cylinder failure.
No brittle oil pump gears.

Sounds like my perfect mustang!

 

[engineermike]

.....I could not find anything saying a FWD Mustang was planned to have a V8 of any size. The whole concept of Ford neutering the Mustang into a FWD car with a 4 or 6 cylinder was because of high fuel costs at the time....

It’s become quite obvious that they’re just making stuff up as they go to try to build their case. Notice that they make bold statements, never want to be burdened with proof, never link to sources, downplay the challenges without any details, and most of their logic sequences are non-sequitur.

 

[Fatguy]

I found this article on the Ford Probe, and found other similar articles describing how Ford wanted to morph the Mustang into a FWD car with either an inline 4 or V6 engine. But it then became a whole new car line called the Probe after Mustang enthusiast convinced Ford to keep the Mustang what it was.

I could not find anything saying a FWD Mustang was planned to have a V8 of any size. The whole concept of Ford neutering the Mustang into a FWD car with a 4 or 6 cylinder was because of high fuel costs at the time.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2013/05/16/cars-of-futures-past-ford-probe/

I can’t remember anything about a V8 Mustang. But here is a guy who put a V8 in a Probe and made it rear wheel drive:

 

[Fatguy]

It’s become quite obvious that they’re just making stuff up as they go to try to build their case. Notice that they make bold statements, never want to be burdened with proof, never link to sources, downplay the challenges without any details, and most of their logic sequences are non-sequitur.

What case? Who is “they”? I just thought he wondered if the ever was a V8 planned - but you see it differently.


In the end this is all good. The only way to evaluate statements is by individuals challenging them. That is how it must work these days. I would question Google’s algorithms and whether they effect the types of links or ranking of those links they get in searches as these would skew the supposed impartiality in vetting statements for themselves.


But people can’t rely on sources as much as they did in the past.

 

[engineermike]

What case? Who is “they”? I just thought he wondered if the ever was a V8 planned - but you see it differently...

I guess you lost track of the logic sequences somewhere over the last 30 pages. It’s like this....you and your friend have been trying very hard to justify swapping a 7.3 into a modern mustang. Part of the justification was that the 5.0 coyote has all sorts of problems and just isn’t good enough. One of those problems, according to you, was that it is inherently displacement-limited due to it being designed and intended for FWD applications. You spent several pages explaining why you didn’t need to supply any proof of this statement. Finally, it was revealed that it wasn’t exactly true by another board member that linked to a source. But it didn’t stop there....it was then said that it was, in fact, designed to be a FWD engine and that it was intended to be used in the FWD mustang whose idea was later scrapped. Myself and others were watching this as it happened and no one seems to remember it happening quite this way. Some have looked for sources of this information to no avail.

This whole debate about whether or not the modular v8 was originally designed and intended for FWD applications could have ended many pages ago had anyone pushing these claims actually linked to a source.

 

[martinjlm]

A pre 1990 Probe based Mustang was almost first to market.
Had that happened, a FWD Stang would've been first to use this design.

People need to remember that myself and others are recalling media releases by Ford before there was a internet.

It is common knowledge that Probe was almost Mustang. What indication is there that Probe was ever gonna have a V8? The reason Probe was almost Mustang was for CAFE reasons. In that era, none of the US car companies knew how to make a fuel efficient FWD V8. Transaxles were very limited as to the amount of torque you could put through them.

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