WARNING! Apex Headstud Failures!

[tdstuart]

Another potential apex stud failure on a fresh gen3 bottom end and not crazy boost. I don’t even think it made 800

They seem like they were sponsored or at least reached out heavily to apex.
They have an assembly video here:
At 7:57 they start talking about the headstuds and they mention how they talked to Travis and that the low torque is a good thing and its way more pressure than factory bolts, etc.

I am wondering how their update video is going to go down. I am trying to reach out to them so they don't make a video to keep peddling them and switch to arp. I don't want them to make a video saying "We must have done something wrong, or maybe there was a defect, it happens, we are just going to get some new ones, thank you Travis for being so supportive". I want a video calling the company out lmao.

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[tdstuart]

Update on Mustang Lifestyle motor situation:

It was because of a broken headstud. Picture attached.

Edit: broke in the same spot as @zero_chance
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/warning-apex-headstud-failures.189969/post-3845752

He built his motor roughly 9 months ago so similar time periods.

 

[HKusp]

For future reference ARP calls for a torque sequence of 40, 80, and finally 125ft/lbs with their lubricant on the threads and bottoms of the nuts.

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[SolarFlare]

Update on Mustang Lifestyle motor situation:

It was because of a broken headstud. Picture attached.

Edit: broke in the same spot as @zero_chance
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/warning-apex-headstud-failures.189969/post-3845752

He built his motor roughly 9 months ago so similar time periods.

DAMN. I sure hope he puts away the youtuber personality and calls it like it is too.

 

[tdstuart]

DAMN. I sure hope he puts away the youtuber personality and calls it like it is too.

That’s my hope. He said he was in talks with Travis and that he will not be using apex again. Hopefully he actually calls them out and even more hopefully Travis admits there is an issue and recalls these damn things.

 

[HKusp]

What is Travis' last name?

 

[tdstuart]

What is Travis' last name?

Travis Rosenbarger

 

[HKusp]

Travis Rosenbarger

Is he the same guy from Boundary oil pump gears?

 

[Epiphany]

When it comes to critical engine fasteners, you always want the highest quality available. For me, based on my own experience, I would stick to ARP due to the limited/non-existent number of failures along with their consistency in terms of quality of the product itself as well as the engineering behind it. The alloy used, heat treat, and installation instructions are something that should first and foremost in the mind of the end user. That said...

Apex Torque Specs:
Step 1: 74 lb/ft
Step 2: 92 lb/ft

ARP Torque Specs:
Step 1: 40 lb/ft
Step 2: 80 lb/ft
Step 3: 125 lb/ft

Purely based on torque figures, the number of steps is interesting as is the deviation between final torque figures from the two companies. Thirty three lb/feet is significant. That would having me look closer at the alloys used and whether or not the nuts and stud threads are lubricated or dry.

ARP uses lube on the contacting washer and nut surface, as well as the nut threads.
Apex only uses lube on the contacting washer and nut surface.

GIANT red flag here. Using ARP thread lubricant on the ARP stud/nut threads (125 lb/ft) versus the Apex stud/nut threads (92 lb/ft) being dry...the ARP studs have the potential for a much higher clamp load than the Apex - of related importance is alloy and heat treat.

I highly recommend using ARP's thread lubricant as they do on their own studs. Preload is consistent, extremely important with multi stage torque sequences. Apex's dry recommendation is potentially (and likely) inconsistent due to friction at the nut/stud thread interface.

The Apex failures look to be rather consistent, where the shank meets the first thread. Based on some of the images shown, I'd be wondering about hydrogen embrittlement. Again, knowing the alloy used is critical. Hard to tell from the wording used on their site but are the Apex stud threads rolled or cut? They should be nothing less than rolled.

Stick with ARP.

ON EDIT...

To be clear, fasteners (as in this case, studs) need to stretch. That elasticity is what allows them to do their job. The issue is yield or when a given stud becomes "plastic" or permanently deformed. Measuring stretch is the most accurate way to properly install critical engine fasteners but it isn't the easiest, hence the torque wrench. Well designed fasteners can be stretched almost an infinite number of cycles as long as they do not exceed limitations. Not enough preload can be a stud killer too as that can encourage fatigue (and then failure).

 

[Oakley]

i'm not hating, im seriously wondering this... why would anyone use anything but ARP?

 

[Epiphany]

To be fair, there are plenty of quality fastener manufacturers out there. When it comes to the domestic engine fastener performance aftermarket, the number of companies out there dwindles down to only a few in short order. ARP leads the class here without question.

Trying to find the actual alloy Apex is using - frustrating.
https://apextorque.com/at280/

We developed AT280 over 6 months of testing different alloys and heat treatments. Our journey led us past 4000 series steel like 4340 and 8000 series steel like 8740 because of insufficient strength and heat instability. Tensile test after tensile test had us tweaking our heat treatment by 20°F at a time to find the perfect blend of strength and durability. When we found peak performance, we started branding it as AT280.

You started branding what as AT280?

 

[tdstuart]

i'm not hating, im seriously wondering this... why would anyone use anything but ARP?

Atleast for me, at the time arp was on backorder and wouldn’t have any for months. Beefcake recommended apex as a solid option that would have some in stock in a few weeks. So for me it was that they would be available so much sooner and that a big company recommended them.

 

[Oakley]

Atleast for me, at the time arp was on backorder and wouldn’t have any for months. Beefcake recommended apex as a solid option that would have some in stock in a few weeks. So for me it was that they would be available so much sooner and that a big company recommended them.

dang. was too much power for the stock stuff the problem being solved?

 

[tdstuart]

dang. was too much power for the stock stuff the problem being solved?

No I used a gen3 shortblock with gen2 heads so you need to use a headstud as none of the head bolts will work

 

[tdstuart]

Is he the same guy from Boundary oil pump gears?

Pretty sure which sucks since I use boundary oil pumps… might switch to another company in the future

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