V8 potential problems coming? [ADMIN WARNING: *** NO POLITICS ***]

[Zooks527]

Is this company based in Indiana?

It was (and is still) not. This was when I worked for them over 30 years ago.

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[james cole]

EVs will be far cheaper to produce and buy in less than eight years time.

People WILL want an EV no need to force feed it to them…

 

[K4fxd]

EVs will be far cheaper to produce and buy in less than eight years time.

Only if there is a major break through in battery tech.

But you still cannot get past physics. The energy has to come from somewhere and then it needs to fill the storage device.

Lets say you have a 100 Kw battery and you have a 220 volt charger. Assuming zero losses that is 286 amps.

It will take a 10Kw charger 10 hours to charge. That is a 45 amp draw. Most residences cannot add this amount extra draw without adding a larger lead in and a higher rated service box.
It will take 450 total amps to charge.


1 gallon of gasoline equals 33.7 kWh. 3 hours of charge time at 10 Kw to equal 1 gallon of gas.

Imagine 10,000 EV's plugged in every night each pulling in 45 amps, plus what is normally drawn from the power station. That is 450 thousand extra amps of power needing to be generated. What if 1 million EV's are plugged in?

Where is this power coming from? It sure is not solar and wind unless we want to give up all our farm land.

There is nothing that can compare to oil for energy density and ease of use.

 

[james cole]

Only if there is a major break through in battery tech.

But you still cannot get past physics. The energy has to come from somewhere and then it needs to fill the storage device.

Lets say you have a 100 Kw battery and you have a 220 volt charger. Assuming zero losses that is 286 amps.

It will take a 10Kw charger 10 hours to charge. That is a 45 amp draw. Most residences cannot add this amount extra draw without adding a larger lead in and a higher rated service box.
It will take 450 total amps to charge.


1 gallon of gasoline equals 33.7 kWh. 3 hours of charge time at 10 Kw to equal 1 gallon of gas.

Imagine 10,000 EV's plugged in every night each pulling in 45 amps, plus what is normally drawn from the power station. That is 450 thousand extra amps of power needing to be generated. What if 1 million EV's are plugged in?

Where is this power coming from? It sure is not solar and wind unless we want to give up all our farm land.

There is nothing that can compare to oil for energy density and ease of use.

Those are very interesting points and most I agree on.

Energy density will come from a breakthrough in battery tech, yes... and it's pretty close, batteries will get lighter, more energy dense and charge as quickly as you can fill up a gas car, 10 years max to be cost effective i.e. cheaper than a gas car.

Rapid charging points that draw full power should only be needed as gas stations are required now. 10KW per hour its more than you need at home, you can use a "full battery" everyday and wake up to a full charge again.

I know it seems like total disaster switching to EV, but it wont be as quickly as we think, it should take around 20 years.

This video explains the grid issue well: .

We only need about 30% more energy output in the US meet the demand of all of Us driving and charging an EV.

I do drive a Tesla (dont shoot me) and the advantages over a gas car even now are very compelling, cant image in a few years as tech goes up and prices go down.

 

[Hack]

Don't believe everything you see on Fox news.

Canada is a great country. As for death, Canada has a higher life expectancy than the US too.
Lifestyle is actually quite good. So are labour laws that protect workers from corporate greed. Why would anyone care that Ford has to pay their people 2 years salary when they axe them after a lifetime of service?

It's not "service". You get paid every day for your work. If you work extra hard, you typically get raises and promotions - extra "rewards".

Service. bah.

 

[Bikeman315]

Energy density will come from a breakthrough in battery tech, yes... and it's pretty close, batteries will get lighter, more energy dense and charge as quickly as you can fill up a gas car, 10 years max to be cost effective i.e. cheaper than a gas car.

Saw this today. The tech in all areas is progressing at a very rapid pace. It will certainly be interesting to see where we are when the “real” EV Mustang comes in 2028.

https://newatlas.com/energy/aluminum-sulfur-salt-battery-fast-safe-low-cost/

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-has-bad-news-for-ev-buyers?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

Time to punt the battery only EV

 

[luca1290]

EVs will be far cheaper to produce and buy in less than eight years time.

And this prediction is based on what?
The World keeps spinning because there are real forces at work, not because we wish it keeps spinning.

I love all these predictions on immediate breakthroughs. And I love how almost everyone is planning for the incoming wonderland we all be living in.
I shall go shopping, buy whatever I want and when the lady at the cash register asks me to pay I'll tell her about my soon to come financial breakthrough.

 

[Bikeman315]

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-has-bad-news-for-ev-buyers?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

Time to punt the battery only EV

Prices are up on everything. This will have zero effect on the growth of EV’s. Manufacturers will be introducing lower priced EV’s and will be subsidizing that cost if necessary.

 

[Bikeman315]

And this prediction is based on what?
The World keeps spinning because there are real forces at work, not because we wish it keeps spinning.

I love all these predictions on immediate breakthroughs. And I love how almost everyone is planning for the incoming wonderland we all be living in.

Eight years is hardly “immediate”. And most of us are not planning for a ”wonderland”.

Yes, there are real issues to be addressed and solved. No question about that. But the amount of money, effort, and time being spend is accelerating the progress of the technology. Look at where we have come since 2014 and you can see that 2030 could be very interesting.

 

[sk47]

Eight years is hardly “immediate”. And most of us are not planning for a ”wonderland”.

Yes, there are real issues to be addressed and solved. No question about that. But the amount of money, effort, and time being spend is accelerating the progress of the technology. Look at where we have come since 2014 and you can see that 2030 could be very interesting.

Hello; In the automobile world a new model might take years to develop. So, a vehicle to be for sale in eight years may already in the planning stage. With the current inflation it does not seem likely a new vehicle will be less expensive.

Interesting that you pick 2014 and up. The hybrid battery/ICE have been on lots since around 2000-2001. I know because I was shopping at the time and looked them over. That was nearly 23 years ago. There has been progress to be sure but not that much with the hybrids. I watch motor trend TV on PBS Saturdays. The newest hybrids do not have impressive mileage over the earlier ones. Incremental improvements due to federal mandates for stuff added which often worsen fuel economy.
I owned a 1972 Porsche 914 which got over 40 mpg. I owned a 1985 Honda Civic HF which got over 40 mpg. Both non hybrid.

I see others see thru the "future will be wonderful" spiel some are posting. It is not wise to stake our survival on technology which does not yet exist but will some day. I am old enough to have seen many promises of a future golden age which never came about. You keep the solid base that works going until a new base is proven to be solid. You do not step off a solid base with the hope the new base, not yet in place, will be there.

As for the manufactures subsidizing future EV's to make them affordable. That plan has lots of holes in the plot. Sure every now and then a company makes a model on which they lose money but that was not the plan. Grocery stores will advertise a "loss-leader" at a lower price just to get us into the store. The plan is we will spend on other items and they come out OK.
Governments may subsidize vehicles with other peoples money and more debt but I do not see a company doing so except in rare cases. Companies are in business to make a profit.

 

[luca1290]

Prices are up on everything. This will have zero effect on the growth of EV’s. Manufacturers will be introducing lower priced EV’s and will be subsidizing that cost if necessary.

Oh, yes, reality is going in one direction, but MY reality will travel the opposite one!
The time is telling that EVs are getting expensive by the hour, that everyone trying to make them is losing money (Tesla included), even if they are ridiculously expensive and with poor performances when compared to a real car. All the hype about the F-150 Lightning getting "extreme" demand is because the offer is insignificant.
The F series sells something shy of 900.000 units every year compared to 2.000 dishwashers. And that is applicable to every automaker, yet the price of lithium went through the roof. Good luck filling the other 98% of the demand.

 

[luca1290]

Eight years is hardly “immediate”. And most of us are not planning for a ”wonderland”.

Yes, there are real issues to be addressed and solved. No question about that. But the amount of money, effort, and time being spend is accelerating the progress of the technology. Look at where we have come since 2014 and you can see that 2030 could be very interesting.

Where exactly did you come from 2014 to today? What technology breakthrough happened in the meantime that I missed that made electric cars attractive?

In the last 10 years battery technology made improvements that did not moved the needle in the scale that much, if not at all.
I'm not talking promises or research or publications, but industrial technologies that can deliver a finite product on a mass scale. Did I miss something here?

 

[Bikeman315]

Where exactly did you come from 2014 to today?

I was using the 8 year analogy. 8 years forward vs. 8 years back.

What technology breakthrough happened in the meantime that I missed that made electric cars attractive?

Look at the assortment, pricing, range and charging times of EV's today vs. 2014. Maybe not huge changes in technology but the overall improvements are very noticeable (if you're looking).

In the last 10 years battery technology made improvements that did not moved the needle in the scale that much, if not at all.
I'm not talking promises or research or publications, but industrial technologies that can deliver a finite product on a mass scale. Did I miss something here?

You are certainly missing something here. All you have to do is Google EV's and you can read all about it.

Edit: Just one to help you out.....
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/honda-acura-hybrid-electric-vehicles-future/?ftag=CAD13782fc

 

[luca1290]

I was using the 8 year analogy. 8 years forward vs. 8 years back.

Oh my, yes, I guess that I understood that was an analogy.

Look at the assortment, pricing, range and charging times of EV's today vs. 2014. Maybe not huge changes in technology but the overall improvements are very noticeable (if you're looking).

That's a reply to my question, even if you put a lot of distractions in it. Technological advancements have been very little.
The assortment you see there is because manufacturers are being forced to make them, and they are making them losing a lot of money and we are paying a lot of government subsides.

I will not reply to the comment involving taking my head out of the sand because I have a certain feeling about where this is going.

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