Track days with/without EV's

[K4fxd]

What am I missing?

Battery fire not only totaling the car but if it burns on the track it can ruin the asphalt or concrete.

Electrocution of track workers.

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[gone_n_60]

Its up to the EV drivers to sort out where to recharge, so not my problem. Tracks do have to sort out how to deal with EV emergencies and figure out if it makes sense for them.. but why would a gas engine driver not want EVs in traffic around them? That's what I was reading.

If its about lost track time to an EV fire, I'd love to hear how often that's actually happening at track days. Seems very uncommon? I've seen an M3 catch fire (spun into dry grass and the headers caught the grass on fire, car was stuck so it burned and was totaled).

FWIW, I've been on track with Teslas at CotA. They were mostly stock, so slow in the corners (stock tires) but quick on the straights. They let faster drivers pass so I really didn't see an issue.

Math, if EV participation is limited around the Road Courses then EV problems are low. When EV's are at every track more often the probability of possible EV crash, fire, what-have-you goes up. My whole issue with this technology is organic growth vs. legislated growth. The early history of automobiles included all kinds of engines and propulsion even Electric power. Over time innovations, markets, auto makers organically moved to the ICE platform for mass production. Related to EV's maybe Tesla was the beginning of an organic movement but now around the globe governments are trying to legislate our choices and what the market should be. You can't create supporting infrastructure from a mandate. fwiw.

To be balanced I don't thing ICE vehicles are the way to go forever. The crazy crap weather all around the world might be say "don't care what your politics are this is happening!". Other car makers are working on hydrogen a lot, that might be good. I remember at one time thoughts of fusion energy were hopeful. For going to the store, going to work even if we created better mass transit I'd be down for that, it would be nicer. No driving hassle.

last, somewhere on here sometime back another member stated that all tracks were allowing EV's, I just wanted to share that is not the case.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Math, if EV participation is limited around the Road Courses then EV problems are low. When EV's are at every track more often the probability of possible EV crash, fire, what-have-you goes up. My whole issue with this technology is organic growth vs. legislated growth. The early history of automobiles included all kinds of engines and propulsion even Electric power. Over time innovations, markets, auto makers organically moved to the ICE platform for mass production. Related to EV's maybe Tesla was the beginning of an organic movement but now around the globe governments are trying to legislate our choices and what the market should be. You can't create supporting infrastructure from a mandate. fwiw.

China in particular is really pushing EVs hard from the top down. Getting a plate for an ICE car costs +$10,000... but demand for them worldwide does seem to be growing quickly.

Demand is growing but its only going to a few companies. Demand for EVs from traditional manufacturers is terribly low, but EV demand overall is increasing pretty quickly.

The emissions targets are really forcing EVs onto the traditional ICE manufacturers in the US. ICE engines can't keep up with the targets. Its awkward for sure, because ICE companies aren't doing well when they try to make and sell EVs. They're getting screwed.

But I do think that there is dramatic organic growth in consumer demand for EVs, its not all top down legislation in the US and europe.

 

[gone_n_60]

China in particular is really pushing EVs hard from the top down. Getting a plate for an ICE car costs +$10,000... but demand for them worldwide does seem to be growing quickly.

Demand is growing but its only going to a few companies. Demand for EVs from traditional manufacturers is terribly low, but EV demand overall is increasing pretty quickly.

The emissions targets are really forcing EVs onto the traditional ICE manufacturers in the US. ICE engines can't keep up with the targets. Its awkward for sure, because ICE companies aren't doing well when they try to make and sell EVs. They're getting screwed.

But I do think that there is dramatic organic growth in consumer demand for EVs, its not all top down legislation in the US and europe.

going to the source... some interesting findings Pew Research..
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...S. adults say,percentage points from May 2022.

 

[TeeLew]

Its up to the EV drivers to sort out where to recharge, so not my problem. Tracks do have to sort out how to deal with EV emergencies and figure out if it makes sense for them.. but why would a gas engine driver not want EVs in traffic around them? That's what I was reading.

That part didn't cross my mind. I've got no problem with them being on track.

 

[Hack]

I think initially most tracks allowed hybrids and EVs. But then after there were some problems, they decided it might not be a great idea. There's a small track near me, and a Model 3 was there one day when I drove my 944. It seemed decently fast and didn't get in my way or cause me any problems. Of course my 944 was really slow, so almost nobody was in my way. But that's more about the driver than the car IMO.

This was a few years ago. I doubt that track would allow EVs any more, because they aren't a big organization with a lot of money to be able to accommodate the kinds of problems that can crop up.

 

[gone_n_60]

China in particular is really pushing EVs hard from the top down. Getting a plate for an ICE car costs +$10,000... but demand for them worldwide does seem to be growing quickly.

Demand is growing but its only going to a few companies. Demand for EVs from traditional manufacturers is terribly low, but EV demand overall is increasing pretty quickly.

The emissions targets are really forcing EVs onto the traditional ICE manufacturers in the US. ICE engines can't keep up with the targets. Its awkward for sure, because ICE companies aren't doing well when they try to make and sell EVs. They're getting screwed.

But I do think that there is dramatic organic growth in consumer demand for EVs, its not all top down legislation in the US and europe.

update!

https://prospect.org/economy/2023-07-31-ford-electric-cars-arent-affordable/

 

[mavisky]

Atlanta Motorsports Park actually just had an entire EV event a couple weekends back. Saw a coupe Model 3 Performance cars go into a 4 wheel drift at 100+ mph and both drivers just barely managed to keep them out of the wall. Impressive as both were perpendicular to the track at one point or another during their slides. Guessing they lifted on the final turn which can cause this exact scenario and then their onboard stability control systems were probably in pure panic mode trying to save it.

 

[junits15]

Some tracks are banning them because they're realizing they can't currently handle an EV battery fire if it happens. Its making the news because its fun to report negative stuff in general. That's about the size of it.

Lets go all the way with it

Its making news in car enthusiast circles because many people are still refusing to accept the very real and near demise of internal combustion.

So this gives people something to point to and go "see I told you those new fangled EV's would never take off" Really we all know that eventually once the fire suppression is understood, EV's will be on the track.

 

[K4fxd]

The horse and ICE analogy doesn't work. For the Horse analogy to work it would be the Government making you switch from a horse to a Donkey.

 

[WItoTX]

The other thing missed in this thread is the insurance costs for clubs. Many clubs in smaller towns probably don't want to pay for the insurance required for EV's. The added cost if something does go wrong is pretty significant.

I know when I was helping our local SCCA group, most of the lot owners were very concerned about EV's.

 

[junits15]

The horse and ICE analogy doesn't work. For the Horse analogy to work it would be the Government making you switch from a horse to a Donkey.

I do agree that that was heavy handed, but I don't think federally there's a mandate is there? I thought at this point it was all at the state level.

It holds on the track though, the things people are calling out aren't really issues we can't solve, better fire suppression, charging available near the track. I mean its not like ICE car's aren't dangerous too, we just know how to deal with the danger. We've got so good at it that it doesn't feel dangerous.

 

[mavisky]

The Federal mandate has to do with new vehicle production. Nothing is in place yet for a timed changeover for personally owned vehicles or used vehicle sales.

 

[NightmareMoon]

The horse and ICE analogy doesn't work. For the Horse analogy to work it would be the Government making you switch from a horse to a Donkey.

yea the govt is making you switch from a very flatulent horse (although you’ve gotten quite used to the smell) to a donkey that never farts, but eats very slowly at certain rare electric fruit trees. It will eat at home but it takes all night to feed it that way.

technically the govt isn’t outlawing horses, just selling new foals with flatulence issues. You can still horse trade the old farty horses as long as they continue to live.

 

[K4fxd]

just flatulence.

They are just moving the flatulence

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