Throttle Enhancer Question

[BMAGOO]

I had a discussion with some guys at work about Pedalmax, Sprint Booster Throttle Enhancer, etc. They say I should get one for my mustang. So quick question... I have the Roush supercharger and tune. Wouldn’t the Roush tune already accommodate for throttle response ?
Thanks in advance.

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[Silver Bullitt]

I had a discussion with some guys at work about Pedalmax, Sprint Booster Throttle Enhancer, etc. They say I should get one for my mustang. So quick question... I have the Roush supercharger and tune. Wouldn’t the Roush tune already accommodate for throttle response ?
Thanks in advance.

It should. I don't know about Roush, but other tuners can adjust tip in to your preference.

 

[Nagare]

The "throttle enhancer" doesn't change your throttle response per se. It just gets rid of the lag when you hit the pedal. Makes it more like an old car without drive by wire.

I like it on my car, but the improvement from a tune is more than what you'll see from a Pedalmax type thing.

 

[BmacIL]

There's no actual lag. All those devices do is change the output percentage of the pedal for a given input. So if you're giving it 1/4 throttle at the pedal, it'll be telling the engine say, 40% or 50%. It feels faster to some but all you have to do is put the pedal down more. The stock Mustang's driver demand table already has some of that built in. Those devices are a quick way to be on the next cars and coffee viral video, as they narrow your pedal modulation significantly. Nothing like an on-off switch to make the tires light up ;)

 

[BMAGOO]

There's no actual lag. All those devices do is change the output percentage of the pedal for a given input. So if you're giving it 1/4 throttle at the pedal, it'll be telling the engine say, 40% or 50%. It feels faster to some but all you have to do is put the pedal down more. The stock Mustang's driver demand table already has some of that built in. Those devices are a quick way to be on the next cars and coffee viral video, as they narrow your pedal modulation significantly. Nothing like an on-off switch to make the tires light up ;)

Ah, I see. I’d honestly never heard of these devices before until today so I wasn’t really even sure what these guys were talking about. I haven’t driven my car since September but I don’t remember there being any sort of lag and throttle response is great so I didn’t see one of these things necessary.

 

[15GTCA]

There's no actual lag. All those devices do is change the output percentage of the pedal for a given input. So if you're giving it 1/4 throttle at the pedal, it'll be telling the engine say, 40% or 50%. It feels faster to some but all you have to do is put the pedal down more. The stock Mustang's driver demand table already has some of that built in. Those devices are a quick way to be on the next cars and coffee viral video, as they narrow your pedal modulation significantly. Nothing like an on-off switch to make the tires light up ;)

Well put, and so true.

 

[Nagare]

I like not having to smash the pedal to the floor :shrug:

Definitely cured the lag that I felt before I had it on and same goes for most of the people that actually try them. Same thing as the ported throttle body that everyone says does nothing but actually made quite a difference for my car.

 

[ForYourOwnGood]

Well put, and so true.

Mostly, but there is lag built into the system. You tell the pedal what you want and the computer opens the throttle butterfly exactly as fast as it thinks it should based on a number of inputs and tables. Its not a 1:1 connection like a throttle cable. There is some significant computer smoothing applied to help nanny you into being able to drive a 400+ hp car like a civic. We're lucky to have drive mode selections that sharpen that relationship up, you can also have your tune adjusted to make it closer.

Usually I notice it the most on downshifts, blipping the throttle sometimes elicits no response at all if the computer has determined you don't need it right then. I sure do miss my old cable driven TB.

 

[BmacIL]

Mostly, but there is lag built into the system. You tell the pedal what you want and the computer opens the throttle butterfly exactly as fast as it thinks it should based on a number of inputs and tables. Its not a 1:1 connection like a throttle cable. There is some significant computer smoothing applied to help nanny you into being able to drive a 400+ hp car like a civic. We're lucky to have drive mode selections that sharpen that relationship up, you can also have your tune adjusted to make it closer.

Usually I notice it the most on downshifts, blipping the throttle sometimes elicits no response at all if the computer has determined you don't need it right then. I sure do miss my old cable driven TB.

I'm sorry, but I promise you that you're incorrect (I used to work in Ford powertrain engineering). There's no lag beyond electrons traveling and the couple milliseconds it takes the pcm to process that (which you can't feel). There are set driver demand tables that command a percentage of engine torque for a given pedal input. Except in snow/rain mode, that relationship is always greater than or equal to 1:1, meaning % torque requested is always at least or more than % pedal input. In track mode it gets very (overly, IMO) aggressive with this. Pay attention the next time you are blipping. The engine does respond essentially instantly to the pedal input. Maybe it doesn't rev as high as you'd like for a given input, but it does respond.

If your car doesn't do this, you've got an issue.

 

[ctandc72]

I haven't had time to get the HPTuners full package and look at the Mustang's throttle / table specs yet - but I'm ASSUMING that it works like other vehicles I've looked at in the past...

While there is no 'lag' - the computer reads the amount of throttle the driver is requesting via the pedal, then the ECU uses all the current input (speed, RPM, drive mode etc etc) and computes "actual" throttle opening at the throttle body itself bases on tables / formula and current driving / condition factors.

Am I incorrect in assuming this?

 

[ForYourOwnGood]

I'm sorry, but I promise you that you're incorrect (I used to work in Ford powertrain engineering). There's no lag beyond electrons traveling and the couple milliseconds it takes the pcm to process that (which you can't feel). There are set driver demand tables that command a percentage of engine torque for a given pedal input. Except in snow/rain mode, that relationship is always greater than or equal to 1:1, meaning % torque requested is always at least or more than % pedal input. In track mode it gets very (overly, IMO) aggressive with this. Pay attention the next time you are blipping. The engine does respond essentially instantly to the pedal input. Maybe it doesn't rev as high as you'd like for a given input, but it does respond.

If your car doesn't do this, you've got an issue.

I'm not talking about signal lag, I'm talking about the physical act of opening the throttle plate. If you stomp on the pedal the plate absolutely does not instantly flip open like a cable driven throttle, it takes a nice smooth swing. On less performance oriented cars its worse than on ours. I've seen throttles that take nearly a full second to open all the way when being commanded wide open (usually early GM DBW throttles).

You've also said that my demand may not be met with the result I expected after its been filtered down through the torque management tables and traction control and whatever other things the computer needs to compare to decide if thats really what I wanted. Again, this is the opposite of a physically connected throttle where my demand will be met regardless of the outcome and other vehicle conditions at the time.

I'm not saying the system is bad, although it has tradeoffs likely in the name of safety the precision control it offers far outweigh the cons and they're getting better all the time. I was just pointing out that it does have some features that irritate drivers and these pedal boosters were designed to try and remedy one of those (I would never use one, I would tune the PCM long before piggybacking unknown electronics onto it).

 

[BmacIL]

I haven't had time to get the HPTuners full package and look at the Mustang's throttle / table specs yet - but I'm ASSUMING that it works like other vehicles I've looked at in the past...

While there is no 'lag' - the computer reads the amount of throttle the driver is requesting via the pedal, then the ECU uses all the current input (speed, RPM, drive mode etc etc) and computes "actual" throttle opening at the throttle body itself bases on tables / formula and current driving / condition factors.

Am I incorrect in assuming this?

Correct, basically.

 

[ctandc72]

Correct, basically.

Then it acts like Honda throttle DBW tables. With the tuning package I had I was able to experiment and change the throttle tables to suit my driving style. The difference was night and day versus the OEM programming and being able to get rid of rev hang was absolutely wonderful. Looks like I'll be getting HPTuners when things slow down for me with work and everything else.

 

[kz]

Mostly, but there is lag built into the system. You tell the pedal what you want and the computer opens the throttle butterfly exactly as fast as it thinks it should based on a number of inputs and tables. Its not a 1:1 connection like a throttle cable. There is some significant computer smoothing applied to help nanny you into being able to drive a 400+ hp car like a civic. We're lucky to have drive mode selections that sharpen that relationship up, you can also have your tune adjusted to make it closer.

Usually I notice it the most on downshifts, blipping the throttle sometimes elicits no response at all if the computer has determined you don't need it right then. I sure do miss my old cable driven TB.

Maybe you need to practice downshifts a little or blip the throttle harder (most people "underblip" it. I _never_ had any log or lack of response on the downshift. Never ever.

 

[Rooster66]

I love this post......with a 2016 GT naturally aspirated with 18 + intake, VMP harness running IMRCs, 87 mm throttle, JLT CAI, stock headers, high flow cats and H-pipe.....My car is tuned by Livernois Motorsports. I talk to their techs constantly about everything I want knowledge on..."ya can never have enough" While they have my throttle response maxed out in my tune. The way they explain it is exactly as the person does in this forum.....That being said....With the pedal enhancer being completely adjustable at your fingertips what's not to like? For me it comes down to personal preference and my Livernois Throttle Enhancer is on it's way.......I'm sure I'll love it and adjust it as per my brain likings....

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