This Why I Really Don't Like Dealers

[young at heart]

Just because someone claims it s their job don t make it right.
I just stay away from people like that. (where I can).

Yeah nothing worse than a guy trying to make an honest living and a dealership trying to stay in business. I say honest because there is likely nothing he’s recommending that isn’t first recommended at your mileage by Ford. The customer has the option to decline so I say the hate is not justified. No harm, no foul.

Sponsored

 

[Angrey]

As a former Ford tech, here's my input. It looks like you asked for a 99P checkout, even if you didn't, I have a responsibility to check your vehicle over to see if something needs attention. The time I don't and you have a problem the next day, guess who will get blamed for not telling you? Yep, that would be me, I'm bad if I tell you do perform some maintenance or repair, I'm bad if I don't. Am I going to pull your cabin air filter? No, I'm going to recommend that based on the manufacturers time line. The cost? Parts are what they are and I have to make reasonable labor. I got .3 hours to do an oil change, about 15 minutes. That .3 is multiplied by whatever my shop charges. How much money do you think I make getting your repair order, going out to find your car, bringing it in, draining the oil and filter, going to the parts counter, filling your oil, putting it outside and wiping it down? I'm not making any money doing that, so if I want .5 hours to change your cabin air filter, which you could do yourself, then I'm pretty comfortable charging you that.

I have no problem with a tech identifying a bunch of stuff that "should" be done. But whether Ford does it to push service sales or whether dealerships negotiate Ford spec writers to include ridiculous intervals or requirements, you have to admit that many things are "recommended" that are just nonsense. On top of that, everyone understands a RESONABLE profit rate. Labor + Materials + Overhead and a REASONABLE profit on top.

I had a coworker who's A/C compressor clutch went out. She got a quote at the Jeep Delearship of $1400 (before taxes). I went and bought a new compressor (rather than just try to swap the clutch) for $209. (that included a new filter). I swapped her old one out in our office parking lot in 45 minutes. She then took it to an A/C shop and spent $130 for a recharge. A shop would have paid wholesale price for the parts and coolant and if I can do something in 45 minutes, they can certainly do it in that time frame. So they were going to charge her upward of $1500 (with sales taxes) for something that "fair" would have been like $500-$600. Had she said that price, I'd have said "we could do it cheaper but at that price you're better off having a professional do it."

If it costs me $120 in materials + my time to do an oil change, then a reasonable price for an oil change at a professional shop is around $200. Anything more than that doesn't pass the sniff test. Things like Cabin air filters and brake flushes and radiator flushes are just ways that dealerships make money off suckers.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

I took my car in for some recall work (related to the powertrain control module. NHTSA recall 22V382).
...

yeah that shit pisses me off too. if they try and get me paranoid i go from annoyed to indignant in no time flat.

 

[K4fxd]

I do my own maintenance. If for some reason I take it to a shop I have them put on the work order in large letters to only do the work on the order. Do not check anything else.

I have peaked in the shop and found my tires off and the dude micing the rotors. I gota free oil change from that shop. I was back the next day for a re torque of the lug nuts.

My car needs to go for the camera re-call and I'm dreading it.

 

[momalle1]

I hear you Angrey, I've lived on both sides of the fence! I do everything I can in my own garage. Just trying to show the other side.

 

[ay1820]

Some time back I had brought my E85 Z4 in for service and they were really pushing me hard on the cabin filter. They were giving me this big story about how you don't know what you might be breathing in with a dirty filter and how there are all sorts of pollutants in the air and how important it is to keep the air inside your car clean. When he was done with his spiel I paused for a moment and said ... "Its a convertible" ... and walked away

 

[Mspider]

Between the upselling in the service and finance manager on extra service/warranty contracts. I can`t stand it.

 

[jcttraveler]

As a former Ford tech, here's my input. It looks like you asked for a 99P checkout, even if you didn't, I have a responsibility to check your vehicle over to see if something needs attention. The time I don't and you have a problem the next day, guess who will get blamed for not telling you? Yep, that would be me, I'm bad if I tell you do perform some maintenance or repair, I'm bad if I don't. Am I going to pull your cabin air filter? No, I'm going to recommend that based on the manufacturers time line. The cost? Parts are what they are and I have to make reasonable labor. I got .3 hours to do an oil change, about 15 minutes. That .3 is multiplied by whatever my shop charges. How much money do you think I make getting your repair order, going out to find your car, bringing it in, draining the oil and filter, going to the parts counter, filling your oil, putting it outside and wiping it down? I'm not making any money doing that, so if I want .5 hours to change your cabin air filter, which you could do yourself, then I'm pretty comfortable charging you that.

I think the problem is this particular dealer and this will be my last visit. It started with booking the appointment. I did it on line. The only service I requested was the recall which I identified by the two recall numbers on my notice. So the "99P check out" was added somewhere along the line by someone else. As for attention to detail, they didn't bother to put the correct mileage in the work order.

As I noted in my original post, I'm somewhat handy but lack time and the proper tools. Sometimes I can smell, hear or feel something is not right, though I might not know what it is, or how to fix it. Because of that, I appreciate it when a tech/mechanic identifies a problem or possible problem. I want to avoid/fix problems. Brake pads getting thin? replace 'em. Battery getting weak, replace it. I don't need to hear metal on metal, or walk out to a car which won't crank to belief you, but please identify *real* or pending issues. I have a couple of Hondas. You don't want to break a timing belt. I appreciate a reminder "based on the mileage, looks like you're due for a new timing belt, and while we have it apart, we suggest a water pump too."

So don't try to recommend a blinker fluid flush, or some of this other stuff. A business needs to make money. Yes, it's important to be an informed customer, but we can't all be experts at everything we use/consumer. That said, I need to follow another poster's practice of asking "Why" and listening to their reasoning.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[Jackson1320]

The mechanic probably had nothing to do with any of these recommendations the service advisor probably did this because any ups sales they get a higher percentage commission. if you come in for a brake job they are not going to pay the service writer much because he didn't do anything. but if he can add on some other services now he starts getting a higher commission

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

The entire problem is that literally everyone at the dealer, with the exception of the porters, is paid ONLY if someone spends some money, whether it be warranty, the customer, or a service contract. Warranty is often not even worth the hassle. You want to pay your bills? Better convince some customers to spend some money. Oh yeah, all those labor laws dealing with overtime and stuff like that? None of it applies, most dealer employees are completely exempt from all of it. It is designed to minimize any expenses for the dealer, at the expense of the customer.

 

[ice445]

They were just hoping you were the type of person who wants to keep their vehicle pristine, and doesn't mind doing "preventative maintenance", even though a lot of that will do nothing useful. It's annoying but it's not the end of the world.

Guess I'm lucky with my dealer though, when I took it in for the recall they didn't upsell anything, they did their usual checks to make sure my car didn't have any obvious problems, but all was green and they let me have it back when they were done. I got a compliment on my wheels too, lol.

 

[Bit_the_Bullitt]

I took my car in for some recall work (related to the powertrain control module. NHTSA recall 22V382).

After some time, the service rep found me to say the tech had "suggested" some additional service. The first item was a cabin air filter (check out the price!). I told the guy (truthfully) I had just changed that (had the tech opened the glove box he would have seen the message I left for myself to remind me of when I last changed it). That seemed to take the wind out of the sails of the service rep because when he then recommended a brake fluid flush, he quickly accepted my "no thanks." Not long after my encounter with the service rep, the car was pulled around. I got my invoice (free) and I drove off.

Later in the day, I had some time to review the invoice (attached). In addition to the filter and flush, the tech had also identified several other high-margin services. The shotgun nature of the recommendations (which have no empirical basis to support the recommendation) really ticks me off. I may flush the brake fluid at some point, but will do it as part of a larger brake job. The car's running great, getting good gas mileage so the "BG induction" and injector service doesn't make sense to me. Alignment/tire balance? Take a look at the tires. They are 9 months old and wearing evenly. and what exactly is a "mist service"? (looks to be a way to control odors coming from the HVAC.)

I'm fairly handy. "Back in the day" when I had more time than money (and when cars were simpler), I did much of my own work. Now, I don't flinch at paying to have my oil changed. I consider myself a believer in preventative maintenance, but get pissed off when I think I'm being taken advantage of. Hopefully, I still know enough to tell the difference, but I know others don't know the difference and are paying for stuff they don't need (or never would need in some cases).

Holy bananas.

As others said, "upselling" is common, especially to spread to shop cost as I'm guessing warranty doesn't pay as much.

But $157 for the cabin air filter? The hell? Those things are $20 at most and 10min of work if you're not doing it for the first time.
It's mind blowing that 4-wheel alignment, arguably a more involved service that has generally high-tech equipment that depreciates, being only $30 more than cabin air filter? Jesus.

 

[gimmie11s]

"brake fluid flush" and "injector service" are 2 of the biggest scams going on any car 15 years old or newer.

What a joke.

I think what pisses car guys off, is when crap like what I mention above is pitched -- the tech is essentially calling you an idiot to your face.

 

[scd603]

I do my own maintenance. If for some reason I take it to a shop I have them put on the work order in large letters to only do the work on the order. Do not check anything else.

I have peaked in the shop and found my tires off and the dude micing the rotors. I gota free oil change from that shop. I was back the next day for a re torque of the lug nuts.

My car needs to go for the camera re-call and I'm dreading it.

How about years ago a local garage took the front rotors off my wife's minivan -- and purposely scored them on the brake lathe while doing an oil change. Called her over and showed her, said that it was extremely dangerous and shouldn't be driving the car (as my young kids stood there). She called me upset. I talked to the mechanic and said I want the old parts, put them in the car. Of course, wife comes home, no old parts. I called, they said to come down. Took one look at rotors and could immediately see that the rotors were scored on purpose -- spiral pattern, no circle(s). Also, the pads still had some meat on them. I literally threw the rotor on the floor in front of the mechanic and other customers. Manager came out and I showed him. No words, he walked into his office and came out with a check for a full refund.

 

[3pdl]

my dad bought a new ford van that had a waterpump go bad within the first 1,000 miles. they replaced it under warranty. my dad got it home and took a look under the van and noticed a glint and saw someone at the dealership crimped both transmission cooling lines. isn't that nice?
they more or less fessed up and repaired it.

Sponsored