The solution to voting

[Burkey]

Our vehement insistence on the right to bear arms is founded on a historical distrust of government, which was instilled in our nation at birth. We also have a painful history of that same government that we are conditioned to distrust suppressing our citizens' right to vote. Our distrust may or may not be logical, but its origins are understandable.

Rejecting a requirement to possess a government ID is a manifestation of that same mistrust of the government and seen as an infringement upon our freedom. To possess a government ID you have to register personal details with the government. Consider that the requiring SSNs is a relatively recent development for that same reason. It was not that long ago that you only needed an SSN if you had a job; it's about taxes.

As for what other countries do, it's curious that we use those who require IDs as an example. Most of the same countries severely restrict gun ownership, require all adults to vote, have an income tax rate of about 48%, VAT of at least 19%, national education requirements, nationally mandated COVID mask policies, dog tax, tv tax, nationally managed health care... But they are right about their voter ID requirement?

You forgot one critical component. Some of those countries don’t allow former bankrupts to hold any position in politics. Ergo, the current president wouldn’t even be eligible.
Crazy stuff. Imagine not allowing someone who can’t manage their own funds properly, to have access to to the wealth of a nation.

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[Caballus]

You forgot one critical component. Some of those countries don’t allow former bankrupts to hold any position in politics. Ergo, the current president wouldn’t even be eligible.
Crazy stuff. Imagine not allowing someone who can’t manage their own funds properly, to have access to to the wealth of a nation.

I get your point, but the president never went bankrupt, even if he was responsible for corporations that failed. His legal personality is separate from that of the failed corporations.

 

[Burkey]

I get your point, but the president never went bankrupt, even if he was responsible for corporations that failed. His legal personality is separate from that of the failed corporations.

True. Good point.

 

[lonegunman]

Hey Jimmy Dean, you are wasting time arguing with an irrational idiot. Poor Justin cannot explain why requiring ID for voters is bad because he has not been told what to think yet. He cannot explain why purging the dead, felons, illegal immigrants and people who have simply moved away from the voter rolls is bad because he is irrational and ignorant. He thinks voter fraud does not exist because democrats always refuse to prosecute fraudsters.

Every other socialist and communist country requires ID to vote, many democratic countries as well.........................but it is bad for America. Why? It is a simple question and this simpleton cannot give an answer.


The dead stop voting in other countries, here they just switch to the Democrat party. Why is that acceptable?

https://www.wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-plea/

https://www.thecalifornian.com/stor...ter-fraud-elections-pacific-grove/3672406002/

https://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827471/study-1-8-million-dead-people-still-registered-to-vote

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/201...-votes-being-cast-from-grave-year-after-year/

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/201...-votes-being-cast-from-grave-year-after-year/


Black Americans have bank accounts, own cars, fly on airlines, obtain passports, cash checks and do all sorts of things that require valid ID, why does Justin think that it is "racist" for them to produce their ID to vote? Why does he think they are intellectually incapable of obtaining a valid ID?

 

[lonegunman]

Joe Biden dodged the draft at least five times, as many as Dick Cheney. If draft dodging was wrong when Trump or Cheney did it, why isn't it wrong when Biden did it?

Joe Biden never owned a company that went bankrupt because Joe Biden has never held an honest job in his entire life. He does give almost 5% to charity every year, heck he's feels so strongly about giving away money that he wants to give away my money.

 

[jtmat]

Hey Jimmy Dean, you are wasting time arguing with an irrational idiot. Poor Justin cannot explain why requiring ID for voters is bad because he has not been told what to think yet.

Black Americans have bank accounts, own cars, fly on airlines, obtain passports, cash checks and do all sorts of things that require valid ID, why does Justin think that it is "racist" for them to produce their ID to vote? Why does he think they are intellectually incapable of obtaining a valid ID?

There are documented instances where states put barriers in place to make it difficult for people to obtain the proper ID (for example, search Alabama DMV closures in predominantly African American counties around 2015). Well, if we all agree that systemic institutionalized discrimination exists...

Also, the argument is not "all African Americans" either... the argument tends to be around smaller groups... like the elderly, homeless, poor, etc.. of all colors.

I say all of that to say that I actually agree with you... but obviously, you will highlight and reply to what is above (since that is what people do on the internet).

I agree in the sense I believe everyone should have an ID to vote. There should also be systems in place to ensure no one can cast more than one vote. What we have to ask ourselves (you and I) is how much we are willing to pay for this... to make a gov't id available to everyone easily will take tax dollars (for example, did Alabama shut down the DMVs due to budget issues? Either way the impact was the same).

In other words, we will have to subsidize this access. Or do you have a better plan?

 

[watisthis]

Hey Jimmy Dean, you are wasting time arguing with an irrational idiot. Poor Justin cannot explain why requiring ID for voters is bad because he has not been told what to think yet. He cannot explain why purging the dead, felons, illegal immigrants and people who have simply moved away from the voter rolls is bad because he is irrational and ignorant. He thinks voter fraud does not exist because democrats always refuse to prosecute fraudsters.

Every other socialist and communist country requires ID to vote, many democratic countries as well.........................but it is bad for America. Why? It is a simple question and this simpleton cannot give an answer.


The dead stop voting in other countries, here they just switch to the Democrat party. Why is that acceptable?

https://www.wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-plea/

https://www.thecalifornian.com/stor...ter-fraud-elections-pacific-grove/3672406002/

https://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827471/study-1-8-million-dead-people-still-registered-to-vote

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/201...-votes-being-cast-from-grave-year-after-year/

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/201...-votes-being-cast-from-grave-year-after-year/


Black Americans have bank accounts, own cars, fly on airlines, obtain passports, cash checks and do all sorts of things that require valid ID, why does Justin think that it is "racist" for them to produce their ID to vote? Why does he think they are intellectually incapable of obtaining a valid ID?

I love how you don't actually read what I write, or just flat out change what I say. Feel free to quote what I say in context and then post a rebuttal.

I've already picked apart these same dumbshit arguments over and over again other than purging voter rolls which I said states already do and is to prevent the obvious. Somehow, you still hold on to these incorrect statements.

 

[Caballus]

If it's good enough for every socialist and communist country, it's certainly good enough for us...

 

[Burkey]

I love how you don't actually read what I write, or just flat out change what I say. Feel free to quote what I say in context and then post a rebuttal.

I've already picked apart these same dumbshit arguments over and over again other than purging voter rolls which I said states already do and is to prevent the obvious. Somehow, you still hold on to these incorrect statements.

Some of what you’ve posted can be quite easily summarised in video. Saves all that pesky reading.
I think @lonegunman will appreciate it.

 

[jtmat]

Some of what you’ve posted can be quite easily summarised in video. Saves all that pesky reading.
I think @lonegunman will appreciate it.

Makes him perfect qualified to run the Postal Service.... right off a f'ing cliff.

That was hilarious!!!!

 

[lonegunman]

I agree in the sense I believe everyone should have an ID to vote. There should also be systems in place to ensure no one can cast more than one vote. What we have to ask ourselves (you and I) is how much we are willing to pay for this... to make a gov't id available to everyone easily will take tax dollars (for example, did Alabama shut down the DMVs due to budget issues? Either way the impact was the same).

In other words, we will have to subsidize this access. Or do you have a better plan?

Oddly enough about half of the people appointed to run the post office in the last 50 years did not have postal service experience, yet suddenly it is Trump's fault. Don't let me stop you from believing whatever Joe Biden pumps into your butts. As far as removing mailboxes or whatever hoax you guys are going with today, the mailman literally comes to your house six days a week, he comes to your work and he resides in the post office in your neighborhood 5 or 6 days a week. So we are supposed to believe that a missing graffiti covered blue box filled with feces from Antifa members will cripple the election, really? If we put a flyer with every ballot promising a 10 dollar crack rock or a gram of weed from the local post office for every ballot mailed early, every idiot in America would be lined up tomorrow.

An ID card is between $20 and $55 dollars in most states. So for the price of one to three grams of weed you can have valid ID, it just depends on your priorities I guess. The same people who cry they cannot afford to purchase a valid ID can of course always find the cash for the drugs or the booze or the new tattoo or the Asian nail lady or Netflix, Hulu and Amazon.

Yes, apparently from 2015 to 2017 Alabama shut down 31 DL offices are you somehow implying that this made it impossible to obtain ID in the rest of America? That was both during the Obama administration and early Trump years so it is highly unlikely that Trump did this and it is also very likely Obama did absolutely nothing to help the state keep those offices opened.

How much am I willing to pay for this? I'm a big supporter of it. I think every criminal should get a new photo ID every time they are released from a state/federal prison as part of their release package. I think that any county or region with government subsidized public or disabled transportation available should be required to cart anyone who desires ID to the nearest state office issuing ID free of charge once a year if they call and schedule it. I think if you actually found a person who is collecting a dozen forms of public assistance, living in public housing, eating free lunches, enjoying a government cell phone, government wifi, government paid for utilities and getting a free monthly bus pass and still unable to round up $50 bucks for ID, they should be able to put that in writing and request a free government ID. I think every foreign criminal captured by the government illegally entering our country should be provided a government ID card before they are released onto the streets to await whatever hearings they have scheduled. I think if you included some form of picture ID with every high school diploma that would be a start for some people.

The real question is why doesn't the government, especially in democrat controlled areas want people to have valid ID? Every suggestion above is easily implemented and none of them are overly expensive and somehow we are supposed to believe none of them are possible.

 

[jtmat]

An ID card is between $20 and $55 dollars in most states. So for the price of one to three grams of weed you can have valid ID, it just depends on your priorities I guess. The same people who cry they cannot afford to purchase a valid ID can of course always find the cash for the drugs or the booze or the new tattoo or the Asian nail lady or Netflix, Hulu and Amazon.

Yes, apparently from 2015 to 2017 Alabama shut down 31 DL offices are you somehow implying that this made it impossible to obtain ID in the rest of America? That was both during the Obama administration and early Trump years so it is highly unlikely that Trump did this and it is also very likely Obama did absolutely nothing to help the state keep those offices opened.

How much am I willing to pay for this? I'm a big supporter of it. I think every criminal should get a new photo ID every time they are released from a state/federal prison as part of their release package. I think that any county or region with government subsidized public or disabled transportation available should be required to cart anyone who desires ID to the nearest state office issuing ID free of charge once a year if they call and schedule it. I think if you actually found a person who is collecting a dozen forms of public assistance, living in public housing, eating free lunches, enjoying a government cell phone, government wifi, government paid for utilities and getting a free monthly bus pass and still unable to round up $50 bucks for ID, they should be able to put that in writing and request a free government ID. I think every foreign criminal captured by the government illegally entering our country should be provided a government ID card before they are released onto the streets to await whatever hearings they have scheduled. I think if you included some form of picture ID with every high school diploma that would be a start for some people.

The real question is why doesn't the government, especially in democrat controlled areas want people to have valid ID? Every suggestion above is easily implemented and none of them are overly expensive and somehow we are supposed to believe none of them are possible.

No, not the rest of America... I used that as an example... as I clearly stated. Really has nothing to do with which party is in office at this point - systemic institutionalized discrimination is its own topic.

It would be interesting to find out how much all of those "free" IDs you want to pass out will cost.

Your post did make me remember a friend of mine many years ago who was recovering from a stroke he had a year prior (it almost killed him). He ran out of funds and ended up moving into his parent's house. I went over to get him out the house and we were looking at something and I made the comment "it is only $10". He looked at me with sad eyes and said "when you don't have it, it might as well be a million dollars". That stuck with me after all these years.

I hang out at boogleheads were we talk about the zillions we are saving for retirement... like that is normal. In this Mustang world $50 is nothing.. gas for a burnout or two. For you, some weed (hopefully not while you are doing a burnout). $50 for Poor, elderly, homeless, disabled, etc.? Not so simple...

It is strange that you seem to think people receiving gov't assistance are "living it up". No one wants to be poor. Sure, you can find some who game the system... but for that one gamer thousands more will go to bed hungry. That is not by choice.

Having went through a medical condition (out of the blue) that put me out of work for almost a year, I can sympathize. Luckily I had an emergency fund and support others might not have.

 

[lonegunman]

If America has 19,000,000 adults in the country living in poverty. Figuring $50 dollars per person to provide an ID card for every adult in poverty, it is under $1 billion dollars. Throw in a few million prisoners and 11,000,000 foreign criminals here illegally and you double it again to $2 billion dollars. Consider that the government spends on average of $1.47 cents to give a dollar to a taxpayer and double it again to cover the administration costs of the program.

$4,000,000,000 to provide ID to everyone unable, unwilling or disinclined to provide it for themselves.

2020 Federal budget? $4,790,000,000,000.00 dollars Cost of ID? 0.00083% of the total budget.

Welfare Christmas is the 1st of every month. Go to a liquor store on that day and enjoy the show. If they sell booze in the grocery store, go admire the crowd in the booze aisle. Swing by the weed store and enjoy the show. If you want to see poverty in action, when the 1st of the month is on a Friday, the show is even better. Yes champ people on welfare are living it up. They have zero medical expenses, zero utility expenses, zero food expenses, in most cases zero housing expenses. They have central air conditioning 63% of the time according to the census. They have full kitchens(98%), most of them own two cars(70%), all of them have cell phones and nearly all have high speed internet, all of it is FREE.

When asked Ghandi said he would love to be poor in America. Reporters looked at him like he was crazy, he explained poor people in America are fat.

 

[Burkey]

If America has 19,000,000 adults in the country living in poverty. Figuring $50 dollars per person to provide an ID card for every adult in poverty, it is under $1 billion dollars. Throw in a few million prisoners and 11,000,000 foreign criminals here illegally and you double it again to $2 billion dollars. Consider that the government spends on average of $1.47 cents to give a dollar to a taxpayer and double it again to cover the administration costs of the program.

$4,000,000,000 to provide ID to everyone unable, unwilling or disinclined to provide it for themselves.

2020 Federal budget? $4,790,000,000,000.00 dollars Cost of ID? 0.00083% of the total budget.

Welfare Christmas is the 1st of every month. Go to a liquor store on that day and enjoy the show. If they sell booze in the grocery store, go admire the crowd in the booze aisle. Swing by the weed store and enjoy the show. If you want to see poverty in action, when the 1st of the month is on a Friday, the show is even better. Yes champ people on welfare are living it up. They have zero medical expenses, zero utility expenses, zero food expenses, in most cases zero housing expenses. They have central air conditioning 63% of the time according to the census. They have full kitchens(98%), most of them own two cars(70%), all of them have cell phones and nearly all have high speed internet, all of it is FREE.

When asked Ghandi said he would love to be poor in America. Reporters looked at him like he was crazy, he explained poor people in America are fat.

This is amazing. I had no idea that only the poor enjoyed their booze and drugs. I also had no idea that all people living in poverty were drug users and alcoholics.
You make it sound SO damn appealing, I think you should give it a go. Why work when you can get all of these benefits for nothing. What a life you could lead.

 

[jtmat]

If America has 19,000,000 adults in the country living in poverty. Figuring $50 dollars per person to provide an ID card for every adult in poverty, it is under $1 billion dollars. Throw in a few million prisoners and 11,000,000 foreign criminals here illegally and you double it again to $2 billion dollars. Consider that the government spends on average of $1.47 cents to give a dollar to a taxpayer and double it again to cover the administration costs of the program.

$4,000,000,000 to provide ID to everyone unable, unwilling or disinclined to provide it for themselves.

2020 Federal budget? $4,790,000,000,000.00 dollars Cost of ID? 0.00083% of the total budget.

You would have to count people falling in and out of poverty/prison/etc. Cost is not the only issue here... you also need to solve all issues with them obtaining an ID, they will need assistance to obtain the supporting documents to receive the ID (birth certificate, etc.).

Not impossible... but I'm not sure about 4 billion - too many unknowns. Would be a fun exercise to run that down with a budget team.

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